Mr Heater Buddy Connection To Aux Propane Port?

[Sweeney]

You put a BB _IN_ your cmaper, you better put a chicken in there with it, at least that way you'll have dinner. I picked a BB up as well ($107 was a hard deal to beat) --- I am currently using it as pure emergency heat at home. A couple weeks ago they had to replace a power pole and I thought I'd freeze to death.

The BB turns my little home office from a cold 12x14 bedroom into a cozy space in about 5 minutes. Then it just gets crazy, even on its lowest setting it puts out a prodigious amount of heat.

Hopefully I'll get it out the the garage and see how it works with the propane port. If life slows down for a minute, I'll get to it I promise.

 

[Steve and Karen]

If life slows down for a minute, I'll get to it I promise.

I'll join the club.

Good to know the BB is doing its job. I should be able to give my own report on it in a Camp-Inn Non-emergency context with the galley shelter up in the next few days. If it stops snowing and if I can put up the Backroads awning. At least I'll be testing both of them in semi- "real world" conditions.

 

[Sweeney]

Here we go, the big reveal! As expected, my 8-foot-long "QC port" to "1lb" hose with no inline regulator works perfectly. I also added an inline filter which apparently is very important to protect the ceramic plates. This obviously is a short-term observation. Perhaps after a few uses an update may be available.

I flipped the heater to its highest setting, and in a few minutes, I had two very bright red ceramic panels glowing beautifully.

I give it a qualified two thumbs-up.

 

[SethB]

Here we go, the big reveal! As expected, my 8-foot-long "QC port" to "1lb" hose with no inline regulator works perfectly. I also added an inline filter which apparently is very important to protect the ceramic plates. This obviously is a short-term observation. Perhaps after a few uses an update may be available.

I flipped the heater to its highest setting, and in a few minutes, I had two very bright red ceramic panels glowing beautifully.

I give it a qualified two thumbs-up.

My experience was different. I don’t know why! I was unable to run a Big Buddy from CI outlet to BB 1-lb inlet with the standard CI-optional hose. I’m glad Sweeney and RM Browder have it working that way! Och.

I do have it working at last! Similar to (same as?) Steve’s approach.

CI outlet ->
Standard CI 4’ hose->
“Steak saver” style 1-lb tank to POL/QCC adapter ->
Mr.heater 20-lb propane tank 12’ hose with regulator ->
Big Buddy from that hose, on the quick-disconnect inlet.

Here are some brass adapters I purchased and tested that didn’t work!

Why the extra brass? What didn’t work for me!
I first thought that I needed to remove the regulator from the Mr. Heater hose, because there’s a regulator at the CI tank. This resulted in an overflow release at the heater (be sure to experiment with propane fittings outside! Expect leaks!)

On the phone with Cary, he explained that the regulator on the tank doesn’t reduce the pressure a lot, it’s to smooth the output to compensate (for fill level, temp) to provide consistent pressure.

So, back to Mr. Heater’s regulator, with an adapter people use to keep their grills going on a 1-lb tank when their 20-lb goes empty.

The mysterious “hold down the knob in pilot position for a while”
Maybe I’m the only one who was confused by this? I’ll share in case there are others…

The heater has a safety shutoff that closes gas supply if there is no heat, by way of a thermocouple heated by the pilot light. If the pilot isn’t lit it shuts off the gas! That’s good! No ‘splosions!

But if the thermocouple is cold, and you want to light the heater, you can manually supply gas to the pilot by holding the knob down in pilot position. Then, when the pilot is lit, you hold down the knob some more to heat the thermocouple.

Slightly complicated for us, because our supply hose contraption is full of air, not gas. Which may take minutes to exhaust holding down the knob. And note that the piezo sparker sparks when you move the knob from off to pilot position.

So that’s what’s happening. Or not happening if your pilot won’t light or stay lit.

 

[Steve and Karen]

My experiment today confirmed Seth's experiment re the pressure relief at the Big Buddy. I connected the Big Buddy to the side port using this configuration of hose and fittings after I had taken the regulator out of the system.

View attachment upload_2023-12-24_16-33-1.jpeg

I turned it on at the tank and got a huge blow-by at the pressure relief valve inside the Big Buddy.

A check of the specs for the Mr Heater hose regulator confirm that, despite its appearances, the "Precimex MOD 5000" (the round silver thing in the photo) delivers only 11" WC to the unregulated QC inside the Big Buddy, which is only 1/50th of the flow that is available at the side port, even when using the 20 lb CI regulator on the tank. No wonder both of us were getting blow-by.

I have yet to to fully reassemble everything, with the Mister Heater regulator in line. When I do, this is what it will look like:

View attachment upload_2023-12-24_17-1-23.jpeg

It's just missing a male-to-male union to connect the flared adaptor to the regulator.

I removed some extraneous parts from the regulator (so that it is just a regulator with 2 female ends) and somewhat simplified Seth's setup. I expect it to work like Seth's did when I get the union. Christmas Eve isn't exactly the time to go shopping for stuff like this.

My parts are slightly different from Seth's because I started with a Female QC, whereas he had a Male QC. So you could simplify my set-up even further, eliminate the flare and reduce the number of parts yet again.

 

[SethB]

Great report Steve! Glad you’re on track.

Hmmm…. I’d like to simplify too! How did you get the pol/qcc1 fitting off the regulator? If I recall it was on super tight, and I wanted to preserve it for use with a 20-lb tank at home. I was afraid it would take chewing up the brass with vise-grips to spin it off.

 

[Steve and Karen]

It was an 11/16ths. It’s not a true straight-edged hex fitting inside, but i figured it had to be spun on by someone, so… it’s coming off the same way:

View attachment upload_2023-12-24_18-59-7.jpeg

That should eliminate the need for second hose. Or any of the other strange adaptors and bushings. I’m building up a collection, too, of useless non-returnable parts, just trying to get this thing to work.

Of course, if we just used it the way Mr. Heater normally intended, none of this would be necessary. But then, CI people aren’t “normal”.

 

[Steve and Karen]

I should probably add that I didn't try to swap out the Mr Heater regulator with the CI regulator and put it on the tank. I figured that 11" WC certainly was enough pressure to allow the Mr Heater to operate properly, but I didn't think that there would be enough residual pressure to run multiple appliances, like the CI stove off it at the same time. Or possibly even the CI stove just by itself. That swap-out would have required another reducer which I didn't have.

11" WC translates to only 0.4 PSI. So... not a lot.

 

[SethB]

I should probably add that I didn't try to swap out the Mr Heater regulator with the CI regulator and put it on the tank. I figured that 11" WC certainly was enough pressure to allow the Mr Heater to operate properly, but I didn't think that there would be enough residual pressure to run multiple appliances, like the CI stove off it at the same time. Or possibly even the CI stove just by itself. That swap-out would have required another reducer which I didn't have.

11" WC translates to only 0.4 PSI. So... not a lot.

I think that’s all good, as there is a second stage of gas regulator under the sink, the big green thing in the photo below. On my CI (2012) the split to the gas outlet is before the second regulator, which is just for the stove. It may be different in different years or on furnace-equipped campers.

This is under the sink, the gas outlet is towards the top of the photo, the dusty green 2nd stage regulator below it, the visible hose out the top of the regulator is for the stove.

 

[Steve and Karen]

Well... that certainly does make a little more sense. I never would have guessed there was a second hidden regulator, without sticking my head upside down and pulling a little more of the trailer apart.

It shows that you just have to keep experimenting until you get it right. Without blowing yourself up, of course.

Maybe Santa left that piece of threaded union in my stocking. Gonna go check.

 

[SethB]

I might prioritize the hot tub option!

Here is my final (?) version, per Steve’s post above:

This is for connecting the CI gas outlet to a Big Buddy’s quick disconnect inlet. Doesn’t work with the Portable Buddy.

In the photo we are looking at Mr. Heater’s F271803 12’ Big Buddy Hose with regulator (link) with its pol/qcc1 connector removed, and replaced with the Sturgis Quick-Disconnect Propane Adapter Fitting Model 250 (link) that Cary linked to earlier in this thread.

It turned out to need the 1/2” drive long breaker bar with 11/16” deep socket and a padded bench vise to pull off that pol connector, and lots of cleaning to get the “dope” sealer out of the threads so I could replace it with yellow teflon tape. You don’t want any schmutz in your gas line!

I don’t know what to say about direct connection of the CI gas outlet to the 1-lb tank inlet on any Buddy heater other than it works for some, but didn’t work for me.

I’m pretty happy with this result, can’t wait to try it in the wilds of Utah in April…

 

[Sweeney]

I don't hvae an inline regulator -- mine comes straight off the quick disconnect, into a 1lb cylinder threaded end --- this screws into the filter, then into the heater itself, looking like this.

 

[Steve and Karen]

Sweeney: I think, somehow, you got lucky. Possibly. Using your configuration was what started me starting this thread in the first place: neither version of the Buddy (regular and Big) would light using a straight hose from the side port into the 1lb connection. Our consensus was that the resultant combined pressure reductions from the 20PSI regulator on the tank and the internal regulator in the heater (at the 1 lb connection) was a non-starter. The internal regulator on the heater is meant only to be used directly off an unregulated tank at +120PSI. This is per Mr Heater.

This is the only configuration that works for me (and Seth) off the side port:

View attachment upload_2023-12-28_14-50-55.jpeg

i.e. 20 psi CI regulator on the tank, combined with the in-line 11" WC Mr Heater regulator.

The Mr Heater hose came with the regulator and the proper female QC for the male QC on the Big Buddy. (Smaller or alternate versions in the "Buddy" line don't have this male QC.) All we had to do was add a male QC for the side port.

My lay interpretation of your set-up, and your success, would be that your CI regulator has possibly failed completely or partially, or it is allowing much greater than 20 PSI to flow to the trailer, and ultimately to the 1lb connector. Given how my internal regulators on two units behaved at high pressure (success) and low pressure (failure), I suspect that you are delivering a higher pressure directly to the heater than either Seth or I were doing out of the side port. I would test your Buddy directly off the tank, both with and without the CI regulator. If you are getting the same lighting and performance success under both scenarios I would think that's a pretty strong indication that your CI regulator is possibly not doing its job any longer. Which could have implications for the rest of the LP system in the trailer. Maybe Cary can chime in on this.

If you have a way of testing the pressures in the lines and at various junctures or end points, that would certainly solve the mystery as to why you were able to get it fired up with your basic unregulated hose and Seth and I weren't.

 

[SethB]

…My lay interpretation of your set-up, and your success, would be that your CI regulator has possibly failed completely or partially, or it is allowing much greater than 20 PSI to flow to the trailer, and ultimately to the 1lb connector…

I myself continue to find propane distribution pretty mysterious. I do like things I can screw together that work!

Just one more tidbit: My on-tank regulator is nearly new on my 11-years-old CI. The original failed, slowly hissing out gas to the atmosphere, and I replaced it with a new one from CI.

 

[rmbrowder]

Sweeney: I think, somehow, you got lucky. Possibly. Using your configuration was what started me starting this thread in the first place: neither version of the Buddy (regular and Big) would light using a straight hose from the side port into the 1lb connection. Our consensus was that the resultant combined pressure reductions from the 20PSI regulator on the tank and the internal regulator in the heater (at the 1 lb connection) was a non-starter. The internal regulator on the heater is meant only to be used directly off an unregulated tank at +120PSI. This is per Mr Heater.

This is the only configuration that works for me (and Seth) off the side port:

View attachment 10136

i.e. 20 psi CI regulator on the tank, combined with the in-line 11" WC Mr Heater regulator.

The Mr Heater hose came with the regulator and the proper female QC for the male QC on the Big Buddy. (Smaller or alternate versions in the "Buddy" line don't have this male QC.) All we had to do was add a male QC for the side port.

My lay interpretation of your set-up, and your success, would be that your CI regulator has possibly failed completely or partially, or it is allowing much greater than 20 PSI to flow to the trailer, and ultimately to the 1lb connector. Given how my internal regulators on two units behaved at high pressure (success) and low pressure (failure), I suspect that you are delivering a higher pressure directly to the heater than either Seth or I were doing out of the side port. I would test your Buddy directly off the tank, both with and without the CI regulator. If you are getting the same lighting and performance success under both scenarios I would think that's a pretty strong indication that your CI regulator is possibly not doing its job any longer. Which could have implications for the rest of the LP system in the trailer. Maybe Cary can chime in on this.

If you have a way of testing the pressures in the lines and at various junctures or end points, that would certainly solve the mystery as to why you were able to get it fired up with your basic unregulated hose and Seth and I weren't.

Have you considered that the Canadian propane standards, which are different from the US standards, are complicating things?

 

[SethB]

Have you considered that the Canadian propane standards, which are different from the US standards, are complicating things?

Alas, my locally distributed propane and US-distributed hardware has the same results as Steve.

Waiting with great interest on results of cold weather field testing inside the galley shelter-
as I've got the CI hose and fittings plus a spare regulator stashed and want a gas fired toe warmer inside the NB12x12 someday...

And suspect I need to replace an old regulator too...or trace lines.

And looks like its game on between two testers now;

Steve and Seth?, with Big Buddy and Kelty Back Roads?
Any others with experience to share, inside a shelter connected to the CI?

Yes, Seth, fellow noob here and gas distribution is...
Fascinating!

Correct - I’ll be testing the Big Buddy with a Kelty Backroads off the kitchen hatch. We’ll see if my cold-intolerant co-camper can warm up to shoulder-season camping… because as of Monday I’m retired and available!

 

[Steve and Karen]

Propane is Propane. And Mr Heater doesn't produce different products for two different markets.

The crux of the matter is that we are trying to use their product in a slightly unconventional manner that is not addressed specifically in Mr Heater's literature. They want you to blindly use their hose configurations that are marketed for their specific models in simple combinations, and don't tell you what you need to do in order to fabricate a work-around with a regulated trailer port.

And Since Seth (in Oregon) experienced the same issues and arrived at the same solution, this is not a country-specific problem.

Kevin: I'm waiting for the ground to freeze a bit before I do a test set-up of the Backroads and the Buddy. The ground is a muddy mess after a solid week of rain.

 

[Sweeney]

How full is your onboard tank and what is the air temperatures? I wonder if I'm testing at a higher temperature (in the high 30's) with a nearly full tank -- I'm at probably 90%. If yours are in colder temperatures, and perhaps a bit closer to being empty, the boil rate is lower, this might explain the different performance.

Giving this some critical thought, this makes sense why mind works, since even in the Grand Design and Jayco's, the QC is low pressure....I might be just dancing on the very edge of having this setup work.

I really want to figure this out, as if I fail when I need it most I would be quite up distraught

 

[SethB]

My 11# tank is also around 90%, plus or minus.

We had some cold (for us) weather over the time I was working on this. It was a few weeks ago. Daytimes have ranged from 38 to 50-deg. What days did I test? Not sure how helpful this is!

I do think that the direct connect from CI outlet to buddy 1-lb inlet should work, and I wonder about further testing since it didn’t work for me. Not helpful!

One actual fact: It’s way easier to manually exhaust the air from Mr. Heater’s qd hose. At your own risk! And that’s what nags at me; did I actually get the air out of the straight connection hose when I tested?

Sweeney, what have you done with holding the pilot knob down or other methods to get rid of the air?

 

[Sweeney]

I use my QC port with a weberQ grill using the same hose, relying on the regulator on the grill, and heater. I've ran the heater down to an empty bottle and had plenty of gas (until I didn't) when the provided "Steak Saver" saved the day. So, I don't think I have any deficiencies in my system -- its performed flawlessly.

As for lighting, I just connect it and and do the push/turn until the pilot lights, then hold it for a few seconds. If it goes out, its possible thermocouple on the buddy is defective, or not hot enough....mine gets hot enough to keep the pilot lit in just a few seconds. Certainly no more than 10. The pilot is a low flow of gas compared to the grill, if that isn't working on your setup, I'm not sure. The thermalcoupler should work the same on bottled gas (1lb) or the big tank.

Bleeding the fresh air shouldn't take long either...just a few more seconds i would imagine.