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Dead Batteries Aren't Much Fun

Given the size limitation (Group 24, 75-80 Ah max) and the large price discrepancy between AGM and LFP4 I'm not sure I see an advantage to switching.
 
JohnC said:
Given the size limitation (Group 24, 75-80 Ah max) and the large price discrepancy between AGM and LFP4 I'm not sure I see an advantage to switching.
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it’s about reserve. If you are a park camper with the periodic night without power, there is no advantage. For those who do 4 or more days regularly, and often have no solar…then it makes sense.

if they batteries manages 20/80 … the this changes.

This is obviously not a simple question….
 
I definitely recommend the rooftop solar. The convenience factor is well worth it. But even without it, I don't see the value in going to LFP4 unless you could have at least a 100 Ah battery.
 
Sweeney said:
it’s about reserve. If you are a park camper with the periodic night without power, there is no advantage. For those who do 4 or more days regularly, and often have no solar…then it makes sense.

if they batteries manages 20/80 … the this changes.

This is obviously not a simple question….
Click to expand...
I hear ya. The problem, IMO, is that you don't really get that much more energy due to the battery being so small to begin with.

I know many will disagree, but I don't believe it's that big a deal to run an AGM battery below 50% once in a while. Especially since it isn't an "all the time" occurrence. A LFP4 battery will cost 4-5 times that of an AGM. Is it that big a deal if you knock a year or two life out of the AGM battery?
 
JohnC said:
I hear ya. The problem, IMO, is that you don't really get that much more energy due to the battery being so small to begin with.
Click to expand...

I think at some level all of us tiny-camper owners feel a little size envy. Awnings, refrigerators, solar, generators. UNLESS you're the excpetion camping for weeks at a time...I'm beginning to think we "overthink" this stuff too much.

More when I've had less to drink :D Black Box Buttery Chardonnay is actually really good :) and today a rough re-entry into the workpalce after 2 consecutive 4 day weekends, with no opportunity to camp :D
 
Sweeney said:
I think at some level all of us tiny-camper owners feel a little size envy. Awnings, refrigerators, solar, generators. UNLESS you're the excpetion camping for weeks at a time...I'm beginning to think we "overthink" this stuff too much.

More when I've had less to drink :D Black Box Buttery Chardonnay is actually really good :) and today a rough re-entry into the workpalce after 2 consecutive 4 day weekends, with no opportunity to camp :D
Click to expand...

Well, I can assure you that I'm as guilty as anybody when it comes to overthinking this stuff! LoL! Did I ever tell you about the three solar generators I have? :eek::Do_O

I chalk it up to trying to keep my mind active since I'm retired. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :D
 
JohnC said:
I hear ya. The problem, IMO, is that you don't really get that much more energy due to the battery being so small to begin with.

I know many will disagree, but I don't believe it's that big a deal to run an AGM battery below 50% once in a while. Especially since it isn't an "all the time" occurrence. A LFP4 battery will cost 4-5 times that of an AGM. Is it that big a deal if you knock a year or two life out of the AGM battery?
Click to expand...
I think that will pencil out differently for everyone.

Some value the coolest tech.
Some always have electrical service at their camp site.
Some always park in the shade. Or in the desert.
Some have alternator charging every other day.

For me, I valued high capacity and redundancy for shady boondocking of up to 6/7 nights at low cost/ah. I ended up replacing a dead trailer batt AND added a 60ah pony batt, both are late generation Victron SuperCycle AGM which are actually rated and tested to 100% draw downs. I paid maybe a 1.7x premium for that.

My feeling is that deep drawdowns with an AGM that isn’t rated for it are a crapshoot. The challenge is getting accurate info about your draw/day and total cumulative draw. It’s hard to know if deep draw downs are just occasional or all the time without good monitoring.
 
SethB said:
I think that will pencil out differently for everyone.

Some value the coolest tech.
Some always have electrical service at their camp site.
Some always park in the shade. Or in the desert.
Some have alternator charging every other day.

For me, I valued high capacity and redundancy for shady boondocking of up to 6/7 nights at low cost/ah. I ended up replacing a dead trailer batt AND added a 60ah pony batt, both are late generation Victron SuperCycle AGM which are actually rated and tested to 100% draw downs. I paid maybe a 1.7x premium for that.

My feeling is that deep drawdowns with an AGM that isn’t rated for it are a crapshoot. The challenge is getting accurate info about your draw/day and total cumulative draw. It’s hard to know if deep draw downs are just occasional or all the time without good monitoring.
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I agree that everyone should make the decision they are most comfortable with. But I would also urge anyone to do the math on the batteries and relate it to their own intended usage. That's really the key.

While I would never run an AGM battery down to zero, it wouldn't bother me to run it dow to 20%-25% SOC 2 or 3 times a year knowing it will otherwise be between 50%-100% (and always at 100% at home) the rest of the year. They are deep cycle batteries.
 
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Pretty encouraging news, but about 1.15” too long for direct replacement, according to my notes.

Here’s what I wrote up a couple years ago, when shoehorning a different big batt:
Current battery is 10.2 x 6.61 x 8.31 (LxWxH). The space for the battery measures 10.25 x 6.75 x 8.31. However, the 8.31 can be increased in height to almost 10 inches if the wooden brace is removed and adjusted. This wooden brace appears to be set to the exact height of this battery to keep it from sliding around, and can be ripped down to allow a slightly taller height.

That flexibility in height wasn’t as accessible as I thought. If I recall, it wasn’t straightforward to get the wooden brace out for ripping down. Luckily, for my project I only needed an additional 0.15” of height, and I didn’t need to remove the brace to get it.

I wonder if the Renogy could work? Maybe so, if raised a bit I think you might get additional space for added length.

And of course you’d need a charger suitable for lithium. 100ah with heated battery management seems really good for $765!

PS. anybody attempting a different sized batt install should do their own close measurements, as CI has changed batteries a couple times…

PPS. um, something hinky with renogy’s site: is that $722, $775, $1376, or $1538?
 
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The webpage linked above shows:

Heated 100Ah battery is regularly $899 on sale now for $765. Price for 2 is $1538

Unheated 100Ah battery is regularly $850 on sale now for $722. Price for 2 is $1376

I also have a battery that is about 10.2" long. Been to long since I put it in to remember if there is another inch of room in the compartment and I can't measure at this time.

The BMS on the Renogy does have low temp protection which might keep me from destroying it in cold weather.
 
Cary Winch said:
Yes, the 11.4" long batteries are too long to fit in a Camp-Inn. That is a common question, the group 27 size batteries seem close dimensionally but that length is too far off.

Cary
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Cary

What is your recommendation for the best battery replacement for #598?

Bill
 
I would stay with a good AGM UPS battery like the Enersys we use now or a C&D Dynasty.

We are working on our Lithium battery option (group 24 size) and will be offering heated cell and non heated cell version very soon. The prototype is sitting in my office right now. However, on #598 you would not have the right battery charger for the Lithium battery. To use a Lithium battery in our campers it must have the 2016 or newer battery charger, a CTEK charge controller to charge correctly when driving (and to protect the car's alternator) and the TriMetric option to monitor the battery since you can't monitor Lithium by battery voltage like the lead acids. If you wanted to do updates on yours Bill and get in on one of these first Lithiums we can talk about it.

Cary
 
Cary Winch said:
I would stay with a good AGM UPS battery like the Enersys we use now or a C&D Dynasty.

We are working on our Lithium battery option (group 24 size) and will be offering heated cell and non heated cell version very soon. The prototype is sitting in my office right now. However, on #598 you would not have the right battery charger for the Lithium battery. To use a Lithium battery in our campers it must have the 2016 or newer battery charger, a CTEK charge controller to charge correctly when driving (and to protect the car's alternator) and the TriMetric option to monitor the battery since you can't monitor Lithium by battery voltage like the lead acids. If you wanted to do updates on yours Bill and get in on one of these first Lithiums we can talk about it.

Cary
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Cary, I'm quite content with my current setup, but do you know if a lithium battery would play well with my Victron controller? It has an option to setup for a LiFePo4 battery.

Thanks!

IMG_7854-XL.png
 
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