Dead Batteries Aren't Much Fun

[Jay & Valerie]

I am looking at potentially upgrading to a LifePO4 battery since my battery died. I updated to the Marinco trickle charger which should be OK for charging them but I know I need the charge controller changed out and ideally a monitor as well. Is the charge controller in the battery compartment?

 

[Randy]

That would be plug and play on a camper with a battery charger that is 2016 or newer AND the CTEK charge controller option. Both items will be needed for proper charging. Yours has the CTEK charge controller, it would just need the shore power charger updated.

Cary

Wouldn’t you need a DC to DC converter in order to push enough current through the 7 pin harness to charge a lithium battery while driving?

 

[Cary Winch]

Wouldn’t you need a DC to DC converter in order to push enough current through the 7 pin harness to charge a lithium battery while driving?

Randy,

You are exactly correct. A DC to DC charge controller for the tow vehicle charge is important also for a lithium battery. Not only to provide the correct charging to the camper's battery but to protect the tow vehicle's alternator, a lithium battery can burn up some alternators. The CTEK charge controller option we offer does this plus is the solar controller needed if solar is used.

Jay,

If you have the solar option the charge controller is found in the upper curb side galley cabinet. If you have the standard solar control option you are not lithium compatible and also don't have a vehicle charge controller as Randy asked about either. The solar controller would have to be changed out for the CTEK charge controller which will handle both the solar charging function plus the DC to DC charge controller function from the tow vehicle.

Battery monitor. With a Lithium battery a battery monitor that reads in percentage is important. A voltmeter will not show you battery capacity like a conventional battery. That is because a lithium battery maintains a rather steady voltage through it's discharge curve right up to it is done and then the voltage drops suddenly. That is an advantage to Lithium because you are not watching the lights get dimmer and dimmer during your camp stay but also there is no indication or warning to when you are about to go dead so that is a big disadvantage. The TriMetric option we offer works perfect with a Lithium battery and will give you a good percentage reading on the battery.

Don't forget that Lithium batteries have limited charging function in freezing weather. So, if planning on driving or camping in freezing weather that has to be factored into the battery specifications.

Cary

 

[gregangsten]

I have a question that is a little off topic but you all are active on this thread now so I'm sticking it here:
I use a pretty big extra lead acid battery for my fridge when I am camping in woods and know that trying to get enough sun for my panel is more trouble than it's worth. I'm planning to be out for a week next month and I'm wondering if I could get by recharging that battery once or twice by running my parked car for a little while with jumpers to it. Would it work if the extra battery is run down to 12V or less? Would it cause any damage to my system or car battery?
I know I could rig up a battery isolator-charging setup that would probably work but it also seems like more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Cary Winch]

Greg,

Charging from a vehicle is somewhat effective. You will get the battery up to about 80% or so doing it like you describe. You can charge a fairly discharged battery like this also. When you figure 11.8v is pretty much max discharge you should go to that would not be a problem to start getting it back up.

A more complete charge could be accomplished by adding some sort of DC to DC charge controller to your pony battery box. Something like Randy was suggesting and like we do with the CTEK Charge controller option. A buddy of mine built a box like this for the back of his wife's Ford Raptor for off road camping and it works great. He used a Renogy brand DC to DC charger for that I believe.

An isolator would not be important if you are just connecting it for charging purposes. An isolator would be important if building it in like my buddies box in the back of the Raptor. In that case the charge controller functions as the isolator.

Cary

 

[gregangsten]

Thanks, Cary. I have a CTEK in my trailer setup but I don't suppose just pluging in to the car and jumping from the trailer battery to that extra battery would be a good idea.

 

[Randy]

I have a question that is a little off topic but you all are active on this thread now so I'm sticking it here:
I use a pretty big extra lead acid battery for my fridge when I am camping in woods and know that trying to get enough sun for my panel is more trouble than it's worth. I'm planning to be out for a week next month and I'm wondering if I could get by recharging that battery once or twice by running my parked car for a little while with jumpers to it. Would it work if the extra battery is run down to 12V or less? Would it cause any damage to my system or car battery?
I know I could rig up a battery isolator-charging setup that would probably work but it also seems like more trouble than it's worth.

RandyRangerDonating Member
I keep my fridge in the bed of the truck connected to a Jackery 1000 which charges while I’m driving via a Victron Energy Orion-Tr Smart 12/12-Volt 30 amp 360-Watt DC-DC Charger, Isolated . It was a fairly easy install. Has a Bluetooth charging status app for my phone. When in camp I keep the Jackery charged with a 100 watt Jackery solar panel. Like the Jackery panel as it folds up small and is very light.

 

[SethB]

Thanks, Cary. I have a CTEK in my trailer setup but I don't suppose just pluging in to the car and jumping from the trailer battery to that extra battery would be a good idea.

Connecting two high capacity batteries like this is usually a bad idea, as the low charge batt will draw down the high charge batt to equilibrium VERY rapidly, fast enough to melt insulation on hot wires, can start fires, will dramatically decrease battery life.

 

[Cary Winch]

Greg,

Seth covered it pretty well. One should not charge or discharge from different batteries strung together. Even slight variations like batteries of the same brand size and model but different ages will cause the batteries to wear out too fast. So, no charging from a DC port in the camper would not be the best plan.

Randy's truck bed set up is a great example of a way to handle a pony battery like this. His setup is basically the same as the setup by buddy has in the Raptor.

Cary

 

[campdude]

Keeping in the back of the vehicle sounds like a great plan. I really like the Victron Energy Orion for charging Dc/Dc

 

[Long Truong]

Err I'm a Camp Inn newbie but if the battery monitor goes from G to L in a couple (2-3?) of days without the fridge or anything connected, its dying right?

 

[Sweeney]

That depends what your are running. The newer campers have USB ports which all have parasitic draw which will depleat a battery but it takes more than a couple days.

Do you have lights running or a fan perhaps? A phone charger plugged in somewhere?

What battery charger do you have installed, and do you have an on-board voltage meter?

 

[SethB]

Quite possibly your battery is nearly gone. With a previously owned trailer a new battery is frequently needed. These are not “forever” parts, and don’t last if they aren’t kept plugged in when stored.

It’s also possible that you have a short in the electrical system that is rapidly drawing down your batt.

If you’re doing your own work you can disconnect the battery and test the trailer electrical system with an ohmmeter or continuity tester. Make sure the battery switch is “on” for that test. If you do have a short it may have damaged the battery, and you would want to fix it before installing a new batt.

Or more likely the battery is just ready for replacement. Some might not think the short test is important, I narrowly avoided killing a brand new battery by testing…

 

[Long Truong]

That depends what your are running. The newer campers have USB ports which all have parasitic draw which will depleat a battery but it takes more than a couple days.

Do you have lights running or a fan perhaps? A phone charger plugged in somewhere?

What battery charger do you have installed, and do you have an on-board voltage meter?

I have none of those I think because my CI is old, 2011.

Quite possibly your battery is nearly gone. With a previously owned trailer a new battery is frequently needed. These are not “forever” parts, and don’t last if they aren’t kept plugged in when stored.

It’s also possible that you have a short in the electrical system that is rapidly drawing down your batt.

If you’re doing your own work you can disconnect the battery and test the trailer electrical system with an ohmmeter or continuity tester. Make sure the battery switch is “on” for that test. If you do have a short it may have damaged the battery, and you would want to fix it before installing a new batt.

Or more likely the battery is just ready for replacement. Some might not think the short test is important, I narrowly avoided killing a brand new battery by testing…

Where was the short physically located?

 

[Tour 931]

Since we are talking batteries or ‘bat-ry as they say in Wisconsin I’m thinking of updating my battery which is most likely dead after sitting in storage for three months. And I want to add the solar panels on 931 this summer. I could email Cary directly but am asking here because others might be also interested.

How far in advance should I make an appointment and how long does it take? How empty will my trailer need to be? Can Camp-Inn do everything that needs to be done?

I’m going back to Washington State at the end of the month to fetch the raindrop and bring it to Ogema.

 

[Sweeney]

Since we are talking batteries or ‘bat-ry as they say in Wisconsin I’m thinking of updating my battery which is most likely dead after sitting in storage for three months. And I want to add the solar panels on 931 this summer. I could email Cary directly but am asking here because others might be also interested.

How far in advance should I make an appointment and how long does it take? How empty will my trailer need to be? Can Camp-Inn do everything that needs to be done?

I’m going back to Washington State at the end of the month to fetch the raindrop and bring it to Ogema.

I think you'd need to talk to Campinn about that, when I needed service for mine they were not booked out 6 months

 

[M&L]

...I’m thinking of updating my battery which is most likely dead after sitting in storage for three months.

For what it's worth, I've had amazing results resuscitating dead batteries with this...WAY better than other battery chargers I've had over the years:

NOCO GENIUS5, 5-Amp Fully-Automatic Smart Charger, 6V and 12V Portable Battery Charger, Battery Maintainer, Trickle Charger, and Battery Desulfator with Temperature Compensation
Link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W8KJH44

 

[SethB]

…Where was the short physically located?

I had 2 shorts:

The original old-style charger between the water tanks had been cut out, but its + wire was still on the positive post and showed continuity to ground.

The wiring harness from the 7-way connector splices the alternator charge circuit into heavy cable that runs back to the trailer battery. The splices were crimp with heat-shrink insulation, which was good, but they were improperly crimped with crimper tool jaws for non-insulated connectors. Those pierced the insulation, and eventually with moisture and electrolysis corroded into a fine shorted mess. These splices are zip tied to the tongue if you want to check them. Mine were fulla’ green gick!

Once I realized what these issues were they were easy to fix with new waterproof splices correctly crimped and shrunk, and removed one wire from the positive post.

This trailer’s previous owner hit many salted roads and wasn’t able to keep the battery maintained over winter, kind of the extreme of rough conditions. I’d guess road salt contributed to and exposed both problems.

 

[Long Truong]

I had 2 shorts:

The original old-style charger between the water tanks had been cut out, but its + wire was still on the positive post and showed continuity to ground.

The wiring harness from the 7-way connector splices the alternator charge circuit into heavy cable that runs back to the trailer battery. The splices were crimp with heat-shrink insulation, which was good, but they were improperly crimped with crimper tool jaws for non-insulated connectors. Those pierced the insulation, and eventually with moisture and electrolysis corroded into a fine shorted mess. These splices are zip tied to the tongue if you want to check them. Mine were fulla’ green gick!

Once I realized what these issues were they were easy to fix with new waterproof splices correctly crimped and shrunk, and removed one wire from the positive post.

This trailer’s previous owner hit many salted roads and wasn’t able to keep the battery maintained over winter, kind of the extreme of rough conditions. I’d guess road salt contributed to and exposed both problems.

Wow! That sounds terrible. I found an old multimeter and confirmed no shorts after I took out the battery. I ran to Batteries Plus, the only place I could find selling Agm batteries locally, and got a Duracell AGM battery. It JUST fit. Like I literally had to take out the little plywood floor the battery was resting on and put the battery directly on the slats underneath to get it in. But I have a working battery now!

 

[SethB]

Good news!

I think the issues I experienced aren’t very common, but it’s a good practice to check for shorts when replacing the battery. And easy with a multimeter and electrical basics.