Charging Upgrade

[GlampingOn]

Nice upgrade and writeup Sweeney.
Purty high tech with the 3d printer and all but fitting with the Maker culture of old and new embodied in the CampInn manufacture.

I think AGM makes a lot of sense, and many thanks to Seth, Randy and others on the SuperVictron and you and Steve on the FullRiver. Nice to know we have two proven options available online/in stores, with a bit of a drive.

You referenced mine so heres my story:

When my old shore charger failed it cooked the 2.0 year old lead acid (Everstart?), gradually - a known failure mode of the first model Marinco in my 2010.

I of course had no clue as I'd never checked it, and in a beery haze once parked in the high desert wondered "what the heck is that blinky light under there...fire flies in the Coconino's? Thats a new one...? Sure it was covered in the owners brief which was 8 hours of cracking up with Craig, amidst about a hunnert things with no notes. Plus RTFM as they say on car forums...Derp! Naw!

Plus No way I'm crawling under there with the rattlesnakes, scorpions and jumping cholla..."

My first tell was the flickering lights as shote cahreger was parked in garage full time plugged into the wall, when interior lights turned on, gradually flickering then holding steady...but in a few weeks, flickering in a cycle (60hz?) from the AC leaking past the battery buffer thru Marinco into DC?

This was gradual at first as the bat-tree slowly cooked. See, I mistakenly thought it was an AGM, so I-never-checked-the-water-levels...derp!

When I did take it out, and took to my friendly local Batteries Plus they said "we've never seen one that dry" and "sorry no way to bring that back to life"

So with substantial dithering, mental anguish, and failed attempts dropping the water tank, digging underneath to find wires, and finally patient coaching by Cary and Craig on how to tie in instead by the battery bay,

I replaced the Marinco that was underneath between tanks, with a Noco5, mounted inside the right hand galley bin, rewired and left the Marinco where it was, wires cut and sealed, no power dayed, pinioned under the CampInn rear hitch option and bumper mount..."let the scorpions feed upon the accursed thing..."

I'd read about Seths experience "having to ship back a Victron with a broken corner the Fedex guys dropped on the loading dock"

And said to myself, Self, I need to find something I could get on the road just about anywhere between Left Armpit, East TX and Ekalaka, MT
"off the shelf" at Wally World, Auto Zone, OReillys, Batteries Plus etc and install with my primitive DIY skilz...

as its Murphys Law # (something in low digits) that yer essential technology WILL fail when you most need it and

I dont want to be parked on the playa at Quartzite, for example waiting for it to ship in two weeks...or more.

So, since Bat-tree Plus has the widest numbers of stores on the nationwide map, I went back to my local Batteries Plus - really nice guys- in past I'd used them to recondition a pair of Sears Die Hard AGMs in my tent trailer- 50 and 80% after 8 years of use, recharging with a desulfidator on solar panel in between trips...those Diehards were made by Oddysea when they were good back in the day...

I had earlier sourced a plus sized option for my Alltrack tow vehicle at AutoZone in Moorhead MN
-an Odyseas Yellow Top AGM when the OEM battree died in Fargo as I wanted the durability of AGM on bumpy roads, like in my truck back in my wasted youth in baja camping days...
and coded my BMS in the VW ECU with the VCDS to charge that new batt on AGM cycle.

So my car battree had been charging the lead acid in CI at the higher AGM charge via CTEK while driving down the road...derp again.

Back to the CI:
Battree Plus sold me on their super duper version of a super AGM, (kinda like but not as good as the SuperVictron) and "lucky me: the last on shelf" but it wuz unfortunately, dayed...too long on the shelf I guess...turns out the service tech at store needed training. It wasnt dayed just seemed like it but too late...i'd returned it for refund.

Cuz after three weeks of promising "on the next truck", for another super duper agm I went over across the street to O'Reilys and got a Duracell auto AGM and bot some bolt on marine terminals to adapt the car battery to my CI. See, now I have a plus sized AGM in TV and an OTS get it anywhere AGM in the CI...pretty cool, hey?

Well, of course I didnt realize the battery terminals are on the back side of the auto batteries compared to marine trolling motor lead acids...

And thus too tight to fit the bay, (my 2010 came without the DC fuse installed after 2012, but had extra wiring from the added solar panel and CTEK plus AutoW added, in the galley bin.

So I have less room to work with and zero chance of understanding what wires go where...)

(Yes I have a voltmeter-ammeter and two semesters of college EE at the Boat School, lost in the mist of time...who do you think I am- Sweeney? steve, Seth? I get brain damage just remebering all this...)

But with some caveman chiseling on the wooden battery brace bar I made do...and it all fit nice and snug! That sucka aint going no-where, I chortled remembering bouncing the CI thru 90 degrees of tilt side to side in and out of ruts bounding two feet in the air on the ungraded since last winters USFS roads...

It held up good for one more trip but
Dammit I killed that bat-tree dayed leaving in outside storage three months with an overhead light on low...derp! 7.0 on the meter...the rooftop solar has brought it back to 11.5, but thats still dayed.

So, back to being dependent on far away wholesalers like Continental for the Precision battery...but

Thanks to Sweeney and Steve now I know I can go get an AGM super duper Victron or Sweeneys whatzit? in Group 24, off the shelf...ordered somewhere.

Or another off the shelf lead acid marine trolling battree, or just a car auto AGM with marine terminal add ons bolted in...

Just go to Advance Auto, Autozone, Walmart in the South, just avoid Bat-tree Plus...

 

[Van_and_Terri]

I’ve

Nice upgrade and writeup Sweeney.
Purty high tech with the 3d printer and all but fitting with the Maker culture of old and new embodied in the CampInn manufacture.

I think AGM makes a lot of sense, and many thanks to Seth, Randy and others on the SuperVictron and you and Steve on the FullRiver. Nice to know we have two proven options available online/in stores, with a bit of a drive.

You referenced mine so heres my story:

When my old shore charger failed it cooked the 2.0 year old lead acid (Everstart?), gradually - a known failure mode of the first model Marinco in my 2010.

I of course had no clue as I'd never checked it, and in a beery haze once parked in the high desert wondered "what the heck is that blinky light under there...fire flies in the Coconino's? Thats a new one...?
No way I'm crawling under there with the rattlesnakes, scorpions and jumping cholla..."

My first tell was the flickering lights as when turned on, AC leaking past the Marinco into DC? This was gradual at first as the bat-tree slowly cooked. See, I mistakenly thought it was an AGM, so never checked the water levels...derp! When I did take it out, and took to my friendly local Batteries Plus they said "we've never seen one that dry" and "sorry no way to bring that back to life"

So with substantial dithering, mental anguish, and failed attempts dropping the water tank, digging underneath to find wires, and finally patient coaching by Cary and Craig on how to tie in instead by the battery bay,

I replaced the Marinco with a Noco5, mounted inside the right hand galley bin, rewired and left the Marinco where it was, pinioned under the CampInn rear hitch option and bumper mount...let the scorpions feed upon the accursed thing...

I'd read about Seths experience "having to ship back a Victron with a broken corner the Fedex guys dropped on the loading dock"

And said to myself, Self I need to find something I could get on the road just about anywhere between Left Armpit, East TX and Ekalaka, MT
"off the shelf" at Wally World, Auto Zone, OReillys, Batteries Plus etc

as its Murphys Law # (something in low digits) that yer essential technology WILL fail when you most need it and

I dont want to be parked on the playa at Quartzite, for example waiting for it to ship in two weeks...or more.

So, since Bat-tree Plus has the widest numbers of stores on the nationwide map, I went back to my local Batteries Plus - really nice guys- in past I'd used them to recondition a pair of Sears Die Hard AGMs in my tent trailer- 50 and 80% after 8 years of use, recharging with a desulfidator on solar panel in between trips...

I sourced a plus sized option at AutoZone in Moorhead MN an Odyseas Yellow Top AGM for my VW Alltrack when the OEM battree died in Fargo as I wanted the durability of AGM on bumpy roads, like in my truck back in my wasted youth in baja camping days...and coded my BM in the VW with the VCDS to charge on AGM cycle. So my car battree had been charging the lead acid at the higher AGM charge via CTEK will driving down the road...derp again.

Battree Plus sold me on their super duper version of a super AGM, (kinda like but not as good as the SuperVictron) and lucky me: the last on shelf but it wuz unfortunately, dayed...too long on the shelf I guess...turns out the service tech at store needed training. It wasnt dayed just seemed like it but too late...

Cuz after three weeks of promising "on the next truck", I went over across the street to O'Reilys and got a Duracell auto AGM and bot some bolt on marine terminals to adapt the car battery to my CI.

Well, of course I didnt realize the battery terminals are on the back side of the auto batteries compared to marine trolling motor lead acids...

And thus too tight to fit the bay, (my 2010 came without the DC fuse installed after 2012, but had extra wiring from the added solar panel and CTEK plus AutoW added, in the galley bin.

So I have less room to work with and zero chance of understanding what wires go where...

Yes I have a voltmeter-ammeter and two semesters of college EE at the Boat School, lost in the mist of time...

But with some caveman chiseling on the wooden battery brace bar I made do...and it all fit nice and snug! That sucka aint going no-where, I chortled remembering bouncing the CI thru 90 degrees of tilt side to side in and out of ruts bounding two feet in the air on the ungraded since last winters USFS roads...

It held up good for one more trip but I killed that bat-tree dayed leaving in outside storage three months with an overhead light on low...derp!

So, back to being dependent on far away wholesalers like Continental for the Precision battery...but

Thanks to Sweeney and Steve now I know I can go get an AGM auto (or marine lead acid trolling battery) in Group 24, off the shelf...somewhere.

Or another off the shelf lead acid marine trolling battree, or a car auto AGM with marine terminal add ons bolted in...

Just go to Advance Auto, Autozone, Walmart in the South, just avoid Bat-tree Plus...

I’ve had good experiences at my local Batteries Plus. Guess it mostly depends who is working.

 

[Randy]

Kevin,

In case it might be helpful, copying below a prior post of mine discussing my experience in obtaining a Victron Super Cycle AGM;

I recently purchased the Victron Super Cycle AGM BAT412110081 from InvertersRUs. Apparently there are new regulations around battery shipping. Victron will not ship to a residential address and many of the companies that previously sold this battery (some advertising free shipping) either stopped selling them or had crazy shipping costs (one company quoted me $250 for shipping!). Total cost from InvertersRUs was $391 including a $63 shipping charge. Took 11 days from order to shipment as nobody stocks this particular battery and they have to first get one from Victron before they can ship. All that stated, extremely happy with the battery so far and there is less concern if on occasion I drop below 12 volts. It fit into the battery compartment of my 560 # 701 without any modification.

https://invertersrus.com/product/victron-agm-batteries/?attribute_select-an-option=12V 100Ah AGM Super Cycle Battery&utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=flow&_kx=VTn6hqT7npDK_Qno_dJmHTnkgGbzMmUSuLET7sL52nE=.Y7SUVp

At the same time I also installed a new Victron Bluetooth charger under the trailer (forward of the water tanks as it was too large to fit in between).
https://a.co/d/9IUUKGj

Hope that helps!

Randy

 

[Sweeney]

Thanks for the feedback. I hesitated to write this because it was so lengthy. I'm thinking about starting film some of this stuff -- maybe I can be the next youtube sensation (doubt it, I have a great face for radio)

On the maker culture, I'm certainly on the periphery. I'm finding that If I'm going to start making, I need to have a space dedicated to it. I'm a packrat, and am constantly surrounded by chaos. I do better if a 'space' --- right now, my house is too small, and I'm just out of room.

On 3d printers --- when I first heard about them, I thought it was the dumbest thing in the world. Who would want to make cheap plastic chachki? Well, let me tell you --- once I had one, I immediately started finding its uses. Broken levers, clasps, latches...you name it. This little bracket took me literally minutes to do. Saved me HOURS.

So far the printer has fixed a water fountain for a cat, a latch that holds a transport kennel closed, hair clipper adjustment lever, an industrial part for a friend (see if this actually works today) -- that just off the top of myhead. For $200 -- its saved me twice that in time. If it died tomorrow, I'd replace it with a bigger and faster one.

The 'coolest' project was a kitten corset. Flat Stanley was born with a 'collapsed rib cage' --- he was 'flat' in the middle. We needed a corset to help re-shape his little green-stick bones into a normal chest barrel shape. My wife made one out of cardboard, but he not only was growing, but the cardboard wasn't durable enough. The little puff now runs the house --- sadly no good pictures of his angelic little face.

The interesting part was that as he grew, I just needed to adjust a few numeric values on a drawing --- add length, add with, add a new lace hole....each interaction was trivial. Faster than making it out of a plastic sheet or cardboard. Just adjust and hit 'print' --- come back later and there's your part sitting on the built plate. Too cool.

View attachment upload_2024-2-16_10-15-31.png

Back to the camper, I am happy with my AGM decision. The lifepo4 really have slight advantages for me. If this battery lasts 5 year instead of the 3 it was a good use of time. I've tested it by unplugged the camper for a day, using the fridge and turning some lights now and then as I worked on another project...after 24 hours, it was still at 90%. I'll be fine with this.

I'm looking forward to an actual _use_ of it. We'll see, too cold this weekned.

My only downside is that the blutooth is wrapped in aluminum, so I have to be in the camper or right next to the galley to get a reading.....

 

[dirty6]

Happy Spring, all.

After purchasing a lithium battery last fall and replacing the CTEK (my model was too old), the only thing left for me to do was replace the shore charger. I ordered one from CI, but it didn’t arrive until after my camper went into storage for the winter.

Today we collected the camper from storage and I worked on the replacement. Thanks to Sweeney, all went pretty smoothly with the install. My only significant difference from this OP write up: My tail light had no silicon sealant around the rubber gasket, so I didn’t worry about replacing a sealant that wasn’t there to begin with.

All went very smoothly right up until I was done. I buttoned everything up, cleaned up my messes, and smiled at my accomplishment. Shore power: charges. DC power from tow vehicle: charges. And what a delight to drop the lithium battery into the camper after doing zero maintenance all winter to see it immediately read “13.1v.” After cooking off a couple lead acid batteries due to poor maintenance, that made me happy.

Here’s the rub and where I could use a hand if anybody knows a solid solution:

After buttoning everything up and patting myself on the back, I whipped out my phone to check the status of the Victron SmartShunt. And … it was not reading anything. What the hell.

I unscrewed the battery door, drug the battery out, and heard a weird sound as a random fuse dropped to the floor of the battery bay. Where’d that come from? Not a good feeling to have a fuse just fall out of …. something.

A short inspection later, I realized the fuse is from the power cable that runs from the positive terminal of the battery to the SmartShunt. It has an in-line fuse secured with a plastic screw-together connection. That plastic connection got crushed when I was attempting to squeeze the battery back into its cramped compartment, and now it does not have enough tension to hold the electrical connection through the fuse.

Which means I need a new one of these wires. Anybody have an idea where to get one?

https://www.victronenergy.com/download-photo/1079

 

[dustinp]

They are readily available, but as long as you are going to replace it, you might want to consider something a little more robust, and less like likely to get smashed again, like this : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CBZ96RS...p_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM

but if you want to stay with the glass fuse holder, they have those too: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SL1VFB...automotive&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw

 

[Sweeney]

Mine was siliconed in as well, I just disturbed the silicone when I removed it, so I needed to replace the seal. No big deal really, as you don't get it on your hands....nothing washes it off and I couldn't find my latex gloves at the time.

The two wires, one goes to the battery to provide power. The other can to between sets of batteries to look at how the batteries in the whole package are being utilized. Not a big deal for us, we only have one battery. I'm assuming you screwed the shunt like I did -- not bad, but it would be a lot easier if I had a 4 year old who was mechanically included....that's a tight space.

I have noticed one thing with the AGM battery --- I'll be writiging that up as a question at some point. I want to research a little more.

I had the sam problem with the fuse holders. I shashed one. The other was defective.

I gave up and built a new wire with a standard blade fuse, and it put to the fuse right by the battery terminal. I probably should have ran it to the fuse box, but I wasn't 100% if there was a reference voltage needed, and the fuse box may impact the accuracy as opposed to going right to the terminal. When a 1/4 inch x 1 inch tube gets in the way....Cary has to be killer at playing tetris, that's all I got to say about that!

One word --- you got a little tiny piece of paper that had a code on it. The PUK code? Do not lose it. I you do, and you forget your PIN -- you'll need to disassemble the whole thing to get the number off the side of the shunt.

I am having 1 problem I found, I want to do a little analysis on it and ask Cary about it -- but I may have found a problem with the Genius10, and AGM...I'll keep you posted on my findings.

I want to do some analysis to be sure I know what I'm looking at before I cry wolf....

 

[dirty6]

They are readily available, but as long as you are going to replace it, you might want to consider something a little more robust, and less like likely to get smashed again, like this : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CBZ96RS...p_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM

but if you want to stay with the glass fuse holder, they have those too: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SL1VFB...automotive&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw

this is helpful - thank you! I was hoping to find a product that already had a battery terminal on one end and a ferrule on the other, but I guess I’ll have to build my own wire.

 

[dirty6]

Mine was siliconed in as well, I just disturbed the silicone when I removed it, so I needed to replace the seal. No big deal really, as you don't get it on your hands....nothing washes it off and I couldn't find my latex gloves at the time.

The two wires, one goes to the battery to provide power. The other can to between sets of batteries to look at how the batteries in the whole package are being utilized. Not a big deal for us, we only have one battery. I'm assuming you screwed the shunt like I did -- not bad, but it would be a lot easier if I had a 4 year old who was mechanically included....that's a tight space.

I have noticed one thing with the AGM battery --- I'll be writiging that up as a question at some point. I want to research a little more.

I had the sam problem with the fuse holders. I shashed one. The other was defective.

I gave up and built a new wire with a standard blade fuse, and it put to the fuse right by the battery terminal. I probably should have ran it to the fuse box, but I wasn't 100% if there was a reference voltage needed, and the fuse box may impact the accuracy as opposed to going right to the terminal. When a 1/4 inch x 1 inch tube gets in the way....Cary has to be killer at playing tetris, that's all I got to say about that!

One word --- you got a little tiny piece of paper that had a code on it. The PUK code? Do not lose it. I you do, and you forget your PIN -- you'll need to disassemble the whole thing to get the number off the side of the shunt.

I am having 1 problem I found, I want to do a little analysis on it and ask Cary about it -- but I may have found a problem with the Genius10, and AGM...I'll keep you posted on my findings.

I want to do some analysis to be sure I know what I'm looking at before I cry wolf....

No, I did not screw the shunt into anything. Long story but it’s a cabling issue, it seems easier to me to get the apparatus all to fit in the battery compartment if things can move around a bit.

I wasn’t using the second power wire since I’m not using a second battery. I think I threw it out when I got the shunt installed. Poor choice on my part.

 

[GlampingOn]

No, I did not screw the shunt into anything. Long story but it’s a cabling issue, it seems easier to me to get the apparatus all to fit in the battery compartment if things can move around a bit.

I wasn’t using the second power wire since I’m not using a second battery. I think I threw it out when I got the shunt installed. Poor choice on my part.

Good tips dirty, dustin and sweeney...thanks!

 

[dirty6]

Help me out real quick here - bypassing a fuse and wiring the power to the shunt directly to the battery is a Dumb Dumb Dumb idea, right?

 

[Lipster]

Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!

 

[Sweeney]

No, I did not screw the shunt into anything. Long story but it’s a cabling issue, it seems easier to me to get the apparatus all to fit in the battery compartment if things can move around a bit.

I wasn’t using the second power wire since I’m not using a second battery. I think I threw it out when I got the shunt installed. Poor choice on my part.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't do the same thing while testing it

If you remove the upper panel with the disconnect switch, just slightly rear of the disconnect switch (to give extra clearance) all the way back along the top near the coutnertop, in the passenger side exterior wall there is a 1x1 cleat that makes an excellent mounting location.

Just run the wire that goes to the negative battery terminal to the the shunt, then make a small jumper with ring terminals from the battery side of the shunt (there is a polarity) to the nexgivie battery terminal...

I can print a "screw hole locator" for you that made this very very easy if you want...just PM me.

 

[dirty6]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't do the same thing while testing it

If you remove the upper panel with the disconnect switch, just slightly rear of the disconnect switch (to give extra clearance) all the way back along the top near the coutnertop, in the passenger side exterior wall there is a 1x1 cleat that makes an excellent mounting location.

Just run the wire that goes to the negative battery terminal to the the shunt, then make a small jumper with ring terminals from the battery side of the shunt (there is a polarity) to the nexgivie battery terminal...

I can print a "screw hole locator" for you that made this very very easy if you want...just PM me.

Appreciated for sure - but I think I’m leaning towards keeping that shunt semi-accessible so I can check on the status lights and physically see it if there are issues. It fits just fine in between the aft side of the battery and the nest of wiring around the tail light.

 

[Sweeney]

Appreciated for sure - but I think I’m leaning towards keeping that shunt semi-accessible so I can check on the status lights and physically see it if there are issues. It fits just fine in between the aft side of the battery and the nest of wiring around the tail light.

As long as its got power -- there isn't much more to diagnose, as long as its got power...and you have the PUK if you need to reset the PIN.

The thought of having something rattling around in the electrical bay just made me nervous...I've had a wire short in an old S10 I used to drive....its amazing how hot a 10ga wire will get if it toches something that isn't fused. I don't care for another show like that...That installed a tremendous fear of too much current through a wire. I almost lost the truck....