Charging Upgrade

I killed my battery again. It seems 2 years, and 3 months is what I get out a lead acid. Lasting that long means my battery will need to be replaced at least 4 times in the next 10 years.

Since I killed my battery, I'm anticipating that I will be upgrading to the Lithium battery, I first wanted to replace the charger anticipating this. I actually did this and found I killed the battery as I was doing this.

Next, I reconfigured the CTEK, added a Victron (Done, but I'll talk about it later), and then of course, there's the battery itself. That is once I find a place to buy the battery. Continental/Progressive has probably the worst customer service I have EVER seen.

More on that once I figure out how to get my hands on one, any advise is welcomed....

Take this as a draft, the big notes are here --- but I lost a few photos along the way....it hits the 'big picture' for a 2021 at least --- not sure where the CampInn designs change in the batterybox/charger...


Removal of legacy charger
Removal of the old charger is fairly straightforward. First, of course, disconnect and remove the battery, and unplug the trailer from shore power. You may notice some lights on mine, rest assured when I did the actual removal power was removed.

The Legacy charger is held in place in a bezel with four wood screws. Note the length of these screws; they are slightly larger than other screws that you will need to remove during this operation.

Upon removal of the four screws, the charger bezel is easily removed, giving access to the electrical wires hidden behind.

The side panel needs to be removed. There are 4 wood screws, one in each corner. These need to be removed, and the side panel will easily be removed. My camper is equipped with the Autowbrake (sic) — I unplugged it so that I could have some additional room. This is not necessary, but it made things easier.




Battery Compartment
You will notice the master cutoff is oriented vertically, and the LED volt meter is not lit, power is disconnected from the 12-volt system and not visible, is the shore power is disconnected, remove the 4 screws that hold on the battery cover, one in each corner. Find a 2-connector quick disconnect, separating the two halves.

The second connection is the 110 volt connection — this is found in the upper portion of the battery box, again there are 4 screws that remove it and the plug/socket will be immediately obvious.


Detail of power connection

Quick Connect
You will need to remove the tail light. The 110 plug that feeds power from shore power to the old charger is impossible to remove without first taking off the tail light. Getting a photo of this is impossible, so I will do my best to describe the process.

From behind, the tail light needs to be pressed out, a rubber ring surrounds it. You should be able to press from inside the battery box on the top or bottom edge of the plastic fixture. It is held in with a bead of silicone, it may take some pressure to break. If you disturb the rubber ring, re-seal it as I did. Silicone is a single use sealant. Once it is moved, it is unreliable.







Fishing Wires
From here you will easily be able to maneuver the plug from the old charger and the quick connect port. Attach a string of some kind to each and then pull the old charger out leaving fish lines in place. Once you pull the wires through, simply attach the new chargers plug and wires and pull them back through the opening.

Plug the new charger into the 110 volt socket, the 12 volt quick connect and we’re almost done.




Home Stretch
From the rest is pretty much just reassembly. Reroute wires to minimize tangles, and ensure things are tidy.

Reassemble the tail light assembly, ensuring that you don’t forget to plug it in, as well as ensuring the silicone has been replaced, and that it all looks great.

Reinstall the battery, double checking your polarity is correct (Red + / Black -) and that you haven’t forgotten to plug anything back in.


Gone but not forgotten

Detail of power connection

Detail of disconnect

Tail Light Ring

Box detail

Screw replacement
Final Notes
The job is moderately difficult, but not, taking only a few hours to complete. The hardest part for me was figuring out how to remove the tail light. I don’t think I would have needed to reseal the outer ring had I pushed the light out.

Not included in the time estimate was the installation of a Victon Smart Shunt; this probably added 30 minutes.

One trick an old timer taught me is when you are putting the screws back in — don’t just “drive ’em home” — turn them backward until you feel them “hop” — this, then, righty-tighty until they are snug. This ‘hop’ you will feel when turning left, is the screw re-aligning with the previously cut threads. This will keep you from being as prone to stripping them out later. This trick can be done to plastics, too. next time, you have to replace a battery in a remote or toy that has a plastic back.

This is a moderately difficult job, but only because of the tail light removal. Camp Inn takes pride in space-saving to give you the most storage possible. This is the trade off for that — sometimes repairs may be a little more difficult.

The only tools needed were a Phillips screwdriver, a tube of silicone, and a wrench to tighten the battery lugs.

 

Wow! Very nice writeup! Sticky, mods?

Hear ya on the Continental distribution of the Precision. My local warehouse 30 miles away had none, and no guarantees on when, except a store to store transfer of the last one on the shelf at next closest warehouse a 5 hour drive away one way thru LA traffic...

For plus $200 shipping store to store ("something about sole item in the truck due to regs on hazardous materials...CA?") and earliest was in two weeks...

I didnt want that last unit to be grabbed up in between then and the next time I next needed it...so I asked the local warehouse for the phone # to the one in Palmdale, called and confirmed the price "no shipping" and promised a tip for "in house warehouse pickup" then made the drive. I think they thought I was a nut but I got the battery.

Next closest after was in TX, IIRC...

Maybe pay the Precision distributor in your area to get one on order, and in meantime get yourself an inexpensive off the shelf lead acid marine style at Wally World and throw that in, and when the lion finally arrives swap out later...then you'll have a lead acid backup after installing the new Lion.

And another valuable inventory item in the garage, AKA Sweeneys Trading Post; for "One Second After".
One is none, two is one...

 

Gonna talk to batteries plus tomorrow. If they can’t help me, it’s back to Walmart. The 75 ah from battle born….not worth the price for 25 Ah difference. I’ll use the difference for a jackery….either way, I still have a higher capacity charger … which will keep up with my rather sizable need.

I’m struggling with this decision now. Thinking my initial dread from LION is correct…

just like EVs. Not worth the hype.

 

Try OSI Battery in Minnetonka MN.
They may be able to help.

 

Heh. Hear ya on the EV hype but dont want to be that guy farting in the Church of Holy ClimateChangery..."no politics", amiright?

I'm trusting CI's research on the heated LiON battery tech. The parent company is big in marine LiON and RVs via other battery models, including the ReLion that Cary was waiting on...pretty sure its the same tech just a different cover- Continental sells to RV dealers I hear.

Continental is the distributor of the battery branded "Precision". Scroll down to Precision 110 DC+HT

RV and Deep-Cycle Marine Batteries | Continental Battery Systems

Btw: In the lead acid side of things there are only two actual factories in the US, IIRC but dozens of names and channels...in the Lithium world I'm sure its similar..

I have a "funny me" story on "Bat-trees Plus" for ya...in a PM. Again, my suggestion:

Get the same lead acid trolling battery CI uses/used? at Wally World for now.

Then use the cross-country drive as an excuse for a camping trip to get your LiON at closest warehouse you can.
Find a Location | Continental Battery Systems

Your new NOCO 10 shore charger and Victron shunt are Lion compatible and
After experimenting with lead acid before
And Lion after
you'll have lotsa DATA
("Blinded by Science" cultural reference...
Before and after...

You'll thank me later on the Rte66 adventure...
running your Dometic, brother.

Ice cold adult beverages in the Red Rock country...
Is there a meetup for CI's this spring?
Eclipse anyone?

 

PS: I do like the Jackery...but its not heated or BMS capable of not setting itself on fire if your connected to solar and the temps drop below freezing...pretty common on the high plateaus
Like the Big Bend, or the North Rim, or Joshua Tree when the morning sun comes up.
Last thing I wanna do is set my CI or TV on fire for forgetting to unplug the panels...

 

You're right, Kevin, on the bidding of batteries. I think Walmart right now has their batteries (at least the 24DC) by Clarios, formerly known as Johnson Controls -- they are actually a good battery company. I'm a little more suspicious of the lithium batteries, just because China is a little more

I don't distrust the battery CI has chosen at all. I'm sure its high quality, their customer service skills and ability to serve an individual are pretty questionable. I understand not having a battery in stock, but when they want to charge me for shipping to order one...just very strange.

I know it has the largest capacity --- Battle Born makes one, but it is smaller in capacity --- 75Ah (they also make a 50) I'd love to find another option...

As for the new charger, it is higher capacity as well as having charging profiles for Lead Acid, AGM, Lithium batteries. It also has a "repair" function which will sometimes restore batteries that are not performing well.

The repair function is at higher voltages (15.5). I disconnected the trailer using the master switch and removed the fuse from the Autowbrake controller. There is no need to put additional stress on the onboard electronics.

After running a repair a few times, I have seen the battery that was formerly 'dead' rejuvenate slightly. The 10-amp charger is a NOCO, which I have used on my power equipment for years, and I have been very happy with their products in the past.

 

I upgraded for two reasons. First, I anticipated lithium. Second, I know my power demands are high, and when camping I'm pulling out almost as much as the charger is putting in. I'm only charging at 1-2 amps. The 10amp charger will at least allow me to charge -- so, for me, the upgrade made sense regardless.

The immediate upgrade to lithium was because of the recently deceased 24DC.

I visited the Continental Battery Systems office in Fishers last week, and they looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears. I called Batteries Plus and they tried selling me a motorcycle battery. Next, I called an independent reseller (off the continental web site) and they only sell conventional batteries.

I filled out another web form, lets see how long it takes for that to be ignored.

As a last ditch, I called Batteries Plus (who I don't like anyway), who tried selling me a motorcycle battery. Shaking My Head :| To make matter worse he started badmouthing other stores selling name brand batteries...

So, I dunno...maybe look at AGM just to get me on the road, which was suggested by Kevin ....may be my best solution....

Besides the walmart 24DC --- what other batteries are you folks using? Is AGM worth the upgrade?

 

Will Prowse is a good source for solar and LiFePO4 battery info; in this video he tears apart some cheap ones: . Pretty shocking how crappy some of them are.

for 100Ah systems, he recommends the LiTime ($329): LiFePO4 Batteries for Offgrid and Mobile Solar.

In my Roadtoad trailer (made by Camp-Inn) I installed an SOK, which was the best value at the time: https://www.us.sokbattery.com/products. If I were to do it again today I'd choose the one with the built-in heater, which only costs $30 more than the unheated one-heck, I spent more than $30 DIYing a heater and controller!

 

Hi Tom! I like this guys channel, quite familiar with him. How do you like your road toad? I have a friend I'm trying to talk to one.

The battery box on the CI is pretty restricted, it fits a group 24 battery, not a millimeter more, otherwise more than likely I would be using SOK. Everything I've seen from them is positive.

I definitely wouldn't be looking for the bottom most price, those savings have to come from somewhere, and there's a LOT of angry pixies in a battery, if they ever decide to leave en masse -- yikes. I've seen a phone battery go into thermal runaway, I can't imagine one of these!

 

Love our RoadToad! They're pretty spartan, but we've heavily customized ours and it's absolutely perfect for us. Super light and small--both fits in our garage sideways and tows easily behind almost any car. And working with Craig was great.

Would the LiTime mini (LiTime 12V 100Ah Mini LiFePO4 Lithium Battery, Upgraded 100A BMS, Max.) fit?

 

I don’t know what the possibilities are for the Road Toad, but that batt may well fit a 550/560. It’s about 5/8” taller than the original in my 2012 560, which may require moving or shaving down the cleat that holds down the battery.

I was successful in adjusting up 1/2”.

Note that the LiTime does not have a heater or low temp cutoff; it can only be safely charged at 32-deg F and above. This could be a serious problem for some. Our garage was below 28 for a good week last month. One would need to remember to unplug the charger! If you were towing at sub-freezing that would be a harder problem to solve.

CI is supplying a lithium battery with a built-in heater to avoid the potential for permanent damage in cold temps!

 

They had one there when I picked up my 560 -- watching craig just pick itup and move it was impressive. Then "playing with sticks" pulling with an RC car

Actually, at that price is pretty good, and its got a higher capacity as well. The lack of a heater is its drawback. My garage is in the mid to upper 40's even on the coldest winters. Which probably explains why my gas and electric bills are what they are. I wouldn't have a problem there at all. This is one of those tradeoffs that you COULD make, but if you get crystallization and thermal runaway - I am not so sure I want a new camper under those circumstances.

I know lifepo4 is supposed to be a lot safer --- I'm not 100% sure --- I know crystallization damages the battery --- but do they flame up the same way if you charge freezing?

You've got to shave the hold-down for the AGM battery too --- I actually just ordered the AGM from BatteryGuys.com --- after trying to buy the Precision/Continental Lithium for 4 days without success, I figure they don't want to make money, so I'll help them.

I already made a 3d printable replacement bracket for the wooden one from CI. I'll 'shave' it before I print it. I'll share that drawing with anyone who wants it. For me to do that is faster than trying to shave the factory bracket, besides the factory bracket is so pretty

Besides --- It's faster for me to do that than try to get to the wood shop, which is a hot mess of stored junk right now. 10 minutes to draw it, 3 hours to print it, but that's a zero effort after I hit start. I Just have to baby sit it for a little bit and let the printer chooch away.

 

Here's another interesting conversation about heated batteries. Prowse does a good job of tearing the batteries apart, I've seen him destroy MANY of them doing teardowns, and the litime from the above comments is one of the good ones, I've seen Wil and others talking about them...

Had I seen this video my head might have made at least one more revolution before I hit "buy it now" LOL

You aught to see me buying shoes. Its crazy.

 

Yes, the heated lion battery tech that CampInn has been researching for years comes from a large LiON maker with extensive offshore marine and now big RV experience. Seems a good fit with marine quality construction and fittings on the CI.

And I trust the judgement of a couple of brilliant engineers with inverter manufacturing background and thr head and shoulders customer service that sets CampInn apart...if its good enough for their OEM its what I want to purchase if I need it far away from Necedah.

What, do I sound like a fanboi?
I am!

 

Me too . Guilty as charged. Pardon the pun.

 

Thanks Tom!
So intrigued by your RoadToad customization and places traveled reviews when and if you can share.
Its sort of revolutionary- the Road Toad, and a blank pallette for the Maker evolution in users.

 

Thanks Karl! I uploaded a description of my customizations and photos to the Facebook RoadToad user's group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/7187173647992043. I tried to upload the same file here, but for some reason I wasn't able to.
EDIT: I think this is a direct link to the post.

 

Wow, I'm impressed. I'm in the process of mounting the victron Shunt and haveing a little trouble since the area is tight and the angles are obscure. (Upside down and in a hammock is not a way to rest) I wanted to make a template that I could use to pre-drill holes and verify fittment.

Quick search -- for the measurements on the victron web site -- how big are the holes, where are the holes spaced etc.

How wonderful! They publish the an STL file which has every measurement you could want available. I wish more companies did things like this!!! If I wanted, I could import that into my slicer and print a 3d model in plastic...how cool is that!

 

All right! So --- the Victron shunt install was actually not too bad, as much as I'd like to have documented it --- there is absolutely no way to do it.

In essence, the hardest part of the installation was mounting it. In the "DC" bay above the battery, I found a 1x1 cleat that is used to hold the countertop. The base of the shunt has 2 screw holes that mounted to easily. The shunt is located roughly behind the master switch. While there wasn't much room for tools and hands, there was plenty of space for the Victron, or probably any other shunt. Other than 1 extra wire (tiny little 22 gauge wire) that is coming out from under the bay going directly to the 12-volt battery connector, you'd never know it's there.

I may at some point run that to a fuse in the fusebox, but I didn't see a benefit to doing that. Plus, I believe this is a reference voltage for the microcontroller, this is the most direct and probably will be slightly more accurate. But frankly, I see so little benefit -- its not worth it.

There were a couple of tasks here.

Charger upgrade -- probably 1 1/2 hours to complete. The 2021 was set up to make this simple. The only hard part was removing the tail light which needed to be done to route the 120 volt power to the charger.

Shunt Install -- another 2 to 3 hours. Technically, very simple. However manually quite challenging due to limited space. But -- knowing what I know now, it would probably be a 1 hour job. I did print a screw guide -- 30 cents of filliment and 5 minutes in design software probably saved an twice that much in frustration cost

Battery replacement -- no more difficult than any other. See THIS thread about the specific battery...