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Dead Batteries Aren't Much Fun

Sweeney

Sweeney

Administrator
Thats two for me!

Word to the wise -- Check your batteries when your unit is in storage, ensure the charger is working. The on board electronics (USB Chargers, Radio, computers) all account for what is called "parasitic draw" -- just pieces which are on "standby" waiting to turn on.

I noticed a couple days ago my GPS Spot Tracker was reporting "On battery" instead of its "voltage" report. After finding time to check it today, I discovered the extension cord plugged into the trailer had gotten unplugged at the wall. The parasitic draw discharged the battery....completely. Not even enough voltage to make a light glow dimly, or the 12 volt meter wake up, or the slightest glow from light bulbs.

The hard part is that the on-board charger requires some voltage to detect the presence of the battery. Once I plugged back into the wall no lights came on. The charger couldn't see the battery, so it never produced a charging voltage. To remedy this, you need to apply 12 volts to the battery posts -- THEN plug in the charger. It will see the voltage, and begin charging the battery. To accomplish this, I used a very old 2/6 amp charger that was given to me for Christmas when I was a teenager. Yup....still works like new. I set it up for a 2 amp charge rate at 12 volts, and connected it directly to the battery for a few minutes. Then, I plugged in the shore power, the on-board charger saw 12 volts and been sending power to the battery.

We'll hopefully it charges - otherwise its looking for a new Group24 battery.

Check your power folks.
 
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Since I don't have power where I store the camper this is easy for me. I take the battery out and keep it at home, charging it every other month.
 
Sweeney said:
Thats two for me!

Word to the wise -- Check your batteries when your unit is in storage, ensure the charger is working. The on board electronics (USB Chargers, Radio, computers) all account for what is called "parasitic draw" -- just pieces which are on "standby" waiting to turn on.

I noticed a couple days ago my GPS Spot Tracker was reporting "On battery" instead of its "voltage" report. After finding time to check it today, I discovered the extension cord plugged into the trailer had gotten unplugged at the wall. The parasitic draw discharged the battery....completely. Not even enough voltage to make a light glow dimly, or the 12 volt meter wake up, or the slightest glow from light bulbs.

The hard part is that the on-board charger requires some voltage to detect the presence of the battery. Once I plugged back into the wall no lights came on. The charger couldn't see the battery, so it never produced a charging voltage. To remedy this, you need to apply 12 volts to the battery posts -- THEN plug in the charger. It will see the voltage, and begin charging the battery. To accomplish this, I used a very old 2/6 amp charger that was given to me for Christmas when I was a teenager. Yup....still works like new. I set it up for a 2 amp charge rate at 12 volts, and connected it directly to the battery for a few minutes. Then, I plugged in the shore power, the on-board charger saw 12 volts and been sending power to the battery.

We'll hopefully it charges - otherwise its looking for a new Group24 battery.

Check your power folks.
Click to expand...

..........and it was so young. What an unfortunate waste of a potentially long service life :(. Been there,done that. Not a good feeling.
 
It took a full charge -- charged to 12.9 volts after removing from the charger (and letting it sit for 12 hours)

We'll see what it does. But....4 nights use .....ugh!!!
 
The battery seems to be OK....it takes a full charge. I topped it off, unplugged everything for 12 hours and I saw 12.9 volts...I'm sure I did some damage too it, but it wasn't a kill shot.

I may try to do a night of boondocking at our winter "Shiveree" gathering in January -- if it makes it one night with lights, computer and furnace, I'm sure it will be OK. The charger used by CI does a higher voltage reconditioning charge - boils of sulfonation, theoretically) If not, I may attach to a badini motor --- I'm told they recondition a battery nicely as well.

Batteries plus - hadn't really given them any thought -- I find their service to be mediocre, and their prices a bit high - but, if they have a machine it might not be a bad alternative over buying one. I sincerely doubt that anything in the retail marketplace is better than what I already have. Snake-oil is all too common in the retail market for such things. There is no such thing as a mechanic in a can....

For the spot -- I think it relies completely on Satellite - I could find nothing about cell service in their documentation. I know it works from my garage, I get notifications when I move the trailer and a daily status (which is how I discovered the dead-battery) --- the power draw of the spot is pretty low, I don't think it is my major parasite --- I know what that is. Its my "media server" -- an 8 core, 4 gig of Ram, 2 terabyte SSD computer on a chip that I run my "plex" server on....I didn't shut it down after my last trip...

The LION chargers should --- its just getting ~12 volts visible to the on board charger...LION boost packs should do the job as well. If I had one close by, I probably would have used it instead of pulling out the ol' boat anchor charger.

Have you seen the newer super-capacitor versions of those yet? LION has a severe limitation. It doesn't like to be discharged (left in the trunk for years) nor does it like being 100% charged for long periods of time. The super-capacitor versions will take a low (but not completely dead) battery, run the low voltage through a step-up circuit to charge the super-capcitors....After they are charged by a low battery, they can produce high current and starter voltages to hopefully start the car.

If the car battery is so low it can't charge the super-cap, it can charge from other sources as well...plug into the cigarette lighter on a "donor" car for example.

The big advantage is the super-caps can be cycled millions of times, and are to damaged by sitting empty for extended periods....nor are they prone to over-charge and self destruction as LION's are. Really some slick engineering here....
 
I guess it is time for me to replace the original 2013 battery. I am going to go with the original style battery
 
Skeej said:
Thanks Sweeny for that fact filled reply: nope have not looked at the super caps but will, thx for tip.

Whoa- what? " Plex server"? I haz questions...

You are right about the lion power jump packs, pulled my Noco out awhile back out after sitting in trunk 6 months and it was down to 1/4...that could be...awkward...in a pinch.
Click to expand...

1/4 down is better than dead :) I probably should pull mine out and look at it except my car batteries are all new..ish.

As for TV....look at Stream Movies Free Online | Free TV and Movies with Plex --- I have several hundred DVDs, and dozens or so more TV shows that we watch. Burn Notice, Better Call Saul, Breaking bad, walking dead, and a few more which we "ripped" from DVD which I loaded on to a small "computer on chip" (ODROID-HC2) which serves the media, watchable on any mobile device we have with us....ipad, iphone, PC....anything with a web browser essentailly. 300 DVD's fit into something the size of about 5 decks of cards....

Biggest investment was the time it took to "rip" the DVDs. I spent almost 3 months stuffing disks into a PC....All in, probably $400 including the storage....and I can "take it with me"....a LIFE SAVER when traveling internationally, as my job used to require. You have no idea how refershing it is to hear your mother tongue when traveling....

As for Plex --- ask away :D
 
One trouble with reliance on cellular is that regardless of what site you use, in the same park, cellular can be 3 bars part of "Loop A" and no signal in Loop B. In the parks we frequent, I know which sites I want....The unfamiliar campgrounds are a crap shoot.

We use Nomad Internet --- ATT carrier, and 100% uncapped data. I streamed youtube for a rainy week 2 summers ago. There are still place where internet is simply unavailable. The media server takes care of those places. A rainy and cold night can be trying when its too wet to start a camp fire. The warm glow of an LCD is sometimes your only option.

I was going to build a LCD into the fold-down desk on my rig, but the panels were hard to find (Everyone wants "bigger") and the technology that drives them uses proprietary low voltage ribbon cables that are simply too fine for me to work with. Not to mention, prone to interference and cross-talk. I don't have the microscope and motor skills to work on that small of components. So we're relying on laptops and tablets for video, bluetooth to the on-board stereo for sound, and the media server for content.

I started a thread earlier about this....if there's interest, I can perhaps write up the how I did it --- its not hard, but it definately takes some technical ability -- you aren't just installing a program on your windows computer. MOST of the computer on a chip systems don't have displays outputs, so you're workng on LINUX and command line

If you're game, I'd be happy to re-start the thread...I might even be talked into building one anew using more recent technoloyg that my odroid (which are hard to find due to the shortages) or worse have been discontinued....
 
You know, the whole time through this thread I have been waiting for the Ogden Edsl reference. LOL!!

Maybe I just know Sweeney too well? Or, perhaps I am the only one with that song going through my head every time I see the thread? Could be, arghh.

Cary
 
Cary Winch said:
You know, the whole time through this thread I have been waiting for the Ogden Edsl reference. LOL!!

Maybe I just know Sweeney too well? Or, perhaps I am the only one with that song going through my head every time I see the thread? Could be, arghh.

Cary
Click to expand...


LOL! Well Done Cary! You Sir, are a sick man.

I originally used the subject "Dead batteries, like dead puppies, aren't much fun" but decided to keep the private joke. I wouldn't want to offend some gentle souls sensibilities. Thank Goodness I wasn't talking about a kinked sewer hose...Really, Really.....awwwwhh.....

Oh this got me thinking --- Dr. Demento was so much a part of my formative (or deformative) years that I spent listening to AM Radio - a time sadly long gone, and not recoverable today....



Since it's the end of the year, I'm highjacking my own thread, and I'm feeling quite nostalgic about the good ol' days...praying to God that we return to some resemblance of normal in 2022...

I think fondly of those one-sided friends of the past who are still with us, and pray for the souls of the deceased...

My top 10, in no particular order:

- Dr D -- Still active today, though streaming not on-air
- Steve & Garry - At one point the most FCC fined "jocks" - Both still active, but not as a team
- Larry "Animal Stories!" Lujack - RIP
- Bob "get off my phone you jerk!" Lassiter - RIP
- "Uncle" Bob Collins - RIP
- Barry Faber RIP - Who opened my eyes and started me to thinkin'
- Chuck Harder RIP - The man who predicted this whole hot mess of the last 2 years
- Art Bell - RIP - I'm not sure he believed his guests, but he was always respectful and questioning
- Rush - RIP - The great one...
- Paul Harvey RIP, who must be on all lists of Radio Talents"

That was a trip
 
Skeej said:
Yep, and if I wanna boondock, plus communicate, then sometimes cell reception plays a part...plus gear...
one can get waaayyy in the weeds on this:
I subscribe to these guys to simplify my research...
Internet for RV & Boats
on my personal quest for KISS in a small form factor that doesnt get in the way of nature experience...



Yes that would be interesting...I've read about Rasberry PI, and thought about wiping an old win10 laptop and install linux, but ya know...priorities, plus "look there's a rabbit"*...

but always up for geeking out hopefully not personally pretending to know something more than I do what I am talking about...step by step following someone who HAS done so, worked out the bugs, power etc in the CI, would be The Way.

PS: I only got about half those radio references...Rush, the one and only, Art Bell at night for entertainment to stay awake on long drives...still recall as a teenager listening to the Wolfman on the skip, out of what channel was it- in Chicago. I suppose thats a good thing; only half as sick as you and Cary?

*PS: Someone needs to start/restart a ham thread, too!

*PS2: more about native flute making, and how to play...i haz many questions...
BEAR, where art thou, brother?
Click to expand...


If you can install linux, you can do the plex server....the platform (PI, Odroid, or other) is not all that different. We'll see how the coming weeks ago, I may be going through some unplanned life changes....its not all that hard, IF you're willing to go to google university....

The link you included, I'm aware of them --- they both just annoy the h@#$ out of me for some reason. I can't tell you why. I learned about Nomad Internet through Eric Jacobs, and i'm happy with their service technically -- it WORKS great. The company though is horrible at customer service. I've had trouble with them a couple times. Its always worked out, but sometimes not without some struggle.

When I was planning on full timing while working, it made sense...I'm not sure any more. I think I need to re-group on the totally connected idea.

Red-Pocket has a 20 gig plan which probably will meet my needs. We'll see how things go...I MAY find myself in. Its cheap too.

Taking care of elder parents, I still need the connectivity - I have to travel not infrequently. See what the coming months bring me.

The flute -- thought about that a couple times! I thought about making a PVC flute, but just havn't got there yet. I just don't know if I could give it the time it deserves.....I love the sounds. Carlos Nakai is my "go to" when I need to relax -- just like to many things --- only so much time.....
 
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Skeej said:
Sweeney, in honor of your OP topic, "batteries", I'll drop in a couple links from RELIONs blog/newsletter, of use on the basics for RVs in general for noobs like me:


and

and


Careful note here: the RB100 doesnt fit now, cant be back hacked into that space on CI...but all the concepts and how to understand terminology was very helpful on RELIONs site...

I understand Cary and Team are waiting for RELION to make a heated lithium in the same size as their unheated 75...
And that will be da bomb upgrade to the CI factory group 24...
I was too impatient plus wanted pony flexibility of the Outlaw1072, so went ahead and splurged...

but...

Perhaps customer inquiries from the CampInn fan community to RELION marketing will lead to faster dev...at RELION...
(Fwiw I also looked elsewhere, Battleborn, etc...lots going on, but was pleasantly surprised to get fast reply from RELION marketing, and expect same on my noob questions down the road to tech support...)

What I found coincidentally interesting is large user base in marine applications, bassboats to bluwater yachts...which if you think about it...is a natural fit for our tiny house land yachts craftsmanship, reliability mix of retro cool and high tech...

They have some really neat young users and user influencers similar to the young demo adopting teardrop style for young kids...and looking for more...maybe that enthusiastic older guy...with tech skilz...Sweeney?


We will assimilate them...
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Will look at these a little later. I'm well aware of the LION problems....I've been on this battery journey for a while...looking forward to seeing what the current state of the art is :) Util RELION or battle born come up with a group 24 heated it doesn't make sense.

My only "ask" would be in addition to this to have the ability to enable "battery life" mode --- basically to limit the battery through internal electronics to the 20%-80% sweet spot - unless I tell it to charge to 100%. At this point, I think LION really still only makes sense for those who are truly nomads and living nearly full time. Not sure they make sense for people who might use their battery to capacity 2-4 weeks a year....if that.
 
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I was right!!! I figured Sweeney would be a Dr Demento fan like me. I saw right through that subject title. Me too, listened to his radio program for years. I have my daughter listening to many of these classics now so it is becoming a family tradition.

ReLion batteries. We have some more info on this. The heated cell version is still not available yet, should be soon. But, found and interesting tidbit that may be of interest to many here. The battery management board on the non heated cell version the RB-75 does have low voltage protection. When charging the battery if the temperature drops to close to freezing temps the control board in the battery will throttle back the charge to a very minimal amount that is below the level that would cause damage to the battery. It would be very limited charging but still charging a bit. The big news is that the battery will be OK and not be damaged in freezing temps. For owners camping in a more modest climate this would probably totally fine. Only if you plan on doing serious cold weather camping does the heated cells totally necessary.

Cary
 
That would be plug and play on a camper with a battery charger that is 2016 or newer AND the CTEK charge controller option. Both items will be needed for proper charging. Yours has the CTEK charge controller, it would just need the shore power charger updated.

Cary
 
Yes, the charger in your camper will work with the LiFePo4 battery as is. You could simply change it with no other changes.

Cary
 
Randy,

Anything pre-2016 would. Also, you would need the CTEK charge controller for the vehicle charge. Charging a Lithium straight off of the alternator is not recommended either.

Cary
 
Cary Winch said:
Randy,

Anything pre-2016 would. Also, you would need the CTEK charge controller for the vehicle charge. Charging a Lithium straight off of the alternator is not recommended either.

Cary
Click to expand...

Do you know, Cary, if any of the charge controller companies or the batteries with built in BMS's limit charges? Tesla I think recommends not dropping below 20 or above 80 (70?)% to maximize the battery life. For those with solar, or who come home and plug-in, I can see where the batteries would spent weeks at 100% which is ultimately not ideal for most if not all modern batteries.
 
Sweeney,

Yes, the BMS in most if not all Lithium batteries will start shutting down at 20%.

You bring up a great point on storage percentage. One we would have to change our "teaching" a bit for the Lithium battery option. The manufacturer does not want you to store the camper with the charger plugged in and running like we do with AGM or standard lead acid. And they want you to run it down some to 80% or less. This is soooo much different than we are all used to.

Cary
 
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