Solar Generator Newbie

campdude

campdude

Ranger
Well here goes....

I was pretty gun-ho on a Honda 2200eui generator but.....I am now looking at portable solar generators such as the Jackery 1500 or Bluetti EB240 with (3) 200w panels. (we have a 550 so roof top is not feasible)

I do not know much about them with the exception of 20 hours of internet reviews.

Does anyone have much expierence and able to provide insight on performace.
 
I've done a lot of research and now own 3 of them of varying sizes and brands. I have lots of opinions (but you probably already knew that ;)) but the most important thing is to base your purchase on your needs and how you intend to use it. Inverter size and capacity are probably the two most important factors to consider.

One thing I will say is that I also now own two different solar panels as well. 100 watts and 120 watts. My intent is really to only travel with one to keep storage and weight to a minimum. I originally wanted to go with 200 watts but weight and size convinced me otherwise. Unless your plan includes heavy usage I would probably not go with 200 watts.

If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.
 
John,

My thoughts are I want to be out for a maximum of 10-14 days. The main thing is the ability to run the water pump, have some lights, and the F.F. (if needed we want to run the A/C when it is excessively hot & humid). I think the A/C is about 510 W and should be ok on a 10 amp.

I am vasilating between the EB240 (2400Wh) with 1,000W invertor and the AC200p that is (2000Wh) with a 2,000W invertor. The Bluetti has pretty decent invertorss and MPPT.

The difference between the Bluetti portable PV120 & PV200 is 3lbs. /panel (12.57 vs. 16.1). These are fairly durable with ETFE material & being waterresistant. I want to be able to top off the charge when off grid.

So the EB240 is 48lbs and if I get two panels at 16lbs ea. it is 80lbs total. Not much more than the Honda at 53.5 lbs and a gallon of gas at 6.1lbs, a bit of oil or about 60lbs total.

So John what are you using and how does your needs compare to mine?
 
I guess I'm going to have to blow my cover as a camper. :( I' not big on cooking and spend a lot of time away from the trailer when going places. So often I prefer just quickly heating something. As such I want to be able to bring a microwave. I also prefer avoiding RV parks if I can. So, my largest unit is an Ecoflow Delta Mini. It weighs 24 lbs. It has a 1400 watt inverter and 882Wh capacity. I also have an LG inverter microwave which will run fine, at any level, on this sogen. So I can camp anywhere and have cooking power.

I also have an Ecoflow River Pro which has a 600 watt inverter and 720Wh capacity. It weighs 17 lbs. I can plug in a coffee maker as well as an electric egg cooker while making toast on the CI gas stove. It's easier to move around and works great for a quick, clean breakfast.

I should add that I often camp in bear country so not making big messes in the galley is also important to me. Quick and easy with a very simple clean up works well for me.

I'm not sure what an F.F. is but trying to run a A/C is going to be problematic with any solar generator. The potential start up surge can be a make or break issue. If it will start, you still will only get limited run time before draining most any unit. Keep in mind too that the rated capacity is not what you will get out of it. Figure 80% at best and then it really depends upon the potential parasitic draw if you run a lot of items that cycle on and off. I'm not sure I'd buy any unit if running the A/C was a main priority.

The Bluetti EB series is a very long in the tooth product line. That doesn't make it bad but newer products run with apps that allow you to adjust things like AC charge levels (faster or slower) and other settings. I like having the app. It was a big reason why I went with the Ecoflow over a comparable Bluetti. I also really like being able to quick charge in an hour if need be, but otherwise take my time charging so as to not continuously heat up the batteries. Potentially longer lasting.

I actually have the Bluetti SP120 solar panel. I also have the Renogy Eclipse 100 watt suitcase. I bought the SP120 because it will fold up and fit in the storage bin of the 560. The Renogy has to go in the car if I take it. That said, in head to head competition the Renogy is much more efficient due to being a rigid panel (it dissipates heat better than the fabric Bluetti). In head to head competition I get about 10 more watts out of the Renogy than the Bluetti. But it weights twice as much and won't fit in the trailer storage bin. Arggg!

I know you mentioned not having the rooftop solar but I'm also trying to test out if I can manage to charge the sogens indirectly via the rooftop through the DC ports on the 560. I think I can but haven't tried it out yet. I have charged the Ecoflow directly from the CI house battery via the DC port but it wasn't very efficient.
 
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John thanks for the input. The F.F. is a Fantastic Fan, so that will be the majority of the use.

We too will not be in the camp group and cooking will be quick items (no microwave).

What I said about the A/C was it would be nice to have in extremely humid times and that would be maybe enough to dry out and cool the trailer down 20 deg below ambient. I wasn't thinking continuous run time.

I had looked at Ecoflow and there is something to be said about the rapid charge. This is exactly why I am looking for input and feedback from an experienced user of solar generators.
 
Like John I love’em

I started out with a 300. Then a 500, 1000 and now a 1500. I use them all an any given year. I have (4) 100 watt solar panels to charge them and a 200 watt folding panel on the way (supply line issues). Good idea to add up your predicted consumption before you buy. A watt is the coin of the realm. Where possible it pays to

stick with DC 12V. Inverter conversion step up to 120v is very expensive for off grid. 1000 watt waffle iron will drain a 1000 watt 12V battery in less than an hour but you will get about a dozen waffles. Then you get to enjoy a full day or more of recharge.

Amps X Volts = Watts. Watts / Volts = Amps. 10 amps on 12V = 120 watts. 10 amps on 120V=1200 Watts.

In the day I use as a pass thru system. While the Jackery is charging I charge something else. The display allows me to see if my outgo and income. If your outgo exceeds your income your upkeep will be your downfall. I try and go into the night with all batteries charged. I want heat, fridge, lights, phone, WIFI, computer, stereo, all batteries charged and anything else running. Its luxury!

The units have a cap on how much wattage you can pump in. A Jack 500 may be capped at 60 watts. So if you connect a 200 watt panel it may only accept 60 watts. BUT a 200 watt panel will be very useful in low light conditions (forest, rain and the combo) where the panel will put out less power than 200 watts – WAY less. The 200 watt panel will put out more power in low light. My 1500 charge capacity is capped at 285 watts. So I can connect several panels.

BTW rated solar output is at noon at the equator at the perfect temp. Battery output AGM and Lithium is at about +70F. Output for an AGM at -20F 40% less than +80F. All batteries suffer from cold. It lengthens the charge time and reduces capacity. Non rechargeable lithium’s are best in cold, but they too suffer.

I power a long list of stuff. The most energy hungry is the Laptop and the refrigerator Dometic CFX35 which is one of the best for low power draw.

Subtract 15% from the total rated wattage for overhead. I typically drain a 1000 watt to 20% and then recharge. But you can dring lithiums to zero. Charging another device – you loose about 20% to charging overhead, as opposed to outright running a fridge off of it with no in-between battery. I have used a 500 watt in my car and plugged the fridge into it and plugged the Jackery into the car. That way when I am driving Jack is charging. When I stop Jack keeps fridge running (pass thru charging). Its great for that.

With moveable panels so I can chase the sun as it moves around camp.

My #1 trailer improvement for boondocking has been wiring in the Jackery to the trailer for an alternate battery to power the trailer at the flip of a switch.

I sometimes camp in challenging conditions for long periods of time and I am totally dependent on solar or using the car to charge (which dislike). I am committed to solar. Those conditions take me to the edge of my 120 amp hour battery about 20% of the time. Now I switch off the trailer battery and can plug in the Jackery. Its great! I of course have a recent video on this.
Its loaded with warning to fend off people who don’t know positive from negative. Took me 15 min to do. I used a multimeter to confirm connections and avoid problems every step of the way.

Things to look for (IMO). Full disclosure. Some of my units were supplied test units. I am not bought or paid for. My views are mine.
  • I shy away from no name products and makers who cant be reached to verify these points. BTW Jackery passes all these. Other companies may too. I verified before I bought. No answer no sale.
  • Regulated output on 12V USB and 120AC. Unregulated on 12V for instance – the voltage will drop as it drains. Regulated will stay constant which is important for many digital devices.
  • USB ports wired so when multiple devices are plugged in they will maintain full output amperage and not be starved and charge slower.
  • Cold weather protection. Lithiums (unheated) can not be charged below freezing. It will damage the unit permanently. They can not be drained below +16F. Jackery provides cold cut off to protect the battery. I have a video on this too. Essentially a plastic tub as a green house.
    . Don’t I used it at +7F.
  • BMS protection and cell protection to prevent fires. BMS monitors each cell and charges that cell to capacity and prevents overcharging do to cell differences as the battery ages (battery balancing).
  • A hidden cost is connectors. I have a bushel of wire connectors. Keep that in mind. Yes I have a video on that too! Ha ha ha. I love this stuff.
You probably have seen https://www.youtube.com/c/HOBOTECH who rates this stuff and https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse. Both provide great reviews and details about all units.

=Cosmo
 
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Cosmo

Thanks, yes I have watched both your video and HOBOTECH. I looked at the Jackery 1500Wh along with the (2) 200w Jackery panels. Portable panels are what I am looking at to chase the sun and yes also to account for the lack sun or shade.

The ability to plug in and get a charge while driving on the Jackery is a plus (my work around thought on the Bluetti was a inexpensive inverter) and brand name is good with everyone jumping into this game. The Jack 1500 has an 1800w inverter which handles the AC for a short tie if needed but the Wh are 1500 *80 or 1200Wh.

The Bluetti only has a 1000W inverter but 2400Wh *80% or 1920 Wh. Then to throw in Sodium Ion and potentially solid state batteries next year...hmmm

Decision...decisions
 
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campdude said:
John thanks for the input. The F.F. is a Fantastic Fan, so that will be the majority of the use.

We too will not be in the camp group and cooking will be quick items (no microwave).

What I said about the A/C was it would be nice to have in extremely humid times and that would be maybe enough to dry out and cool the trailer down 20 deg below ambient. I wasn't thinking continuous run time.

I had looked at Ecoflow and there is something to be said about the rapid charge. This is exactly why I am looking for input and feedback from an experienced user of solar generators.
Click to expand...
The beauty of quick charge is that if you are near enough to civilization you can pop in somewhere for an hour and charge up over a cup of coffee if need be.

If you really want to use it on the A/C then you should buy yourself a kilowatt meter and see what kind of spike the A/C draws.Kill-A-Watt™ Electric Monitor Your inverter will need to support that.

10-14 days can be a long time if you are truly off grid, so capacity can become an issue if you find yourself without sun. Doing some math on the daily draw of your appliances is important.

I also just realized you mentioned running the fan and water pump from the solar generator? The only real way to do that would be to plug in the Sogen to the shore power receptacle. While it would work, the AC inverter overhead will run down the Sogen much sooner unless you always turned the Sogen on and off each time you used an appliance. That would then default the draw to the house battery. Something to be aware of.
 
My friend is thinking outside the box!

He likes running a toaster over to make rotisserie chicken!

He is upgrading to a 200AH Lithium Amazon.com: SOK Battery LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Rechargeable Lithium Battery 12V 200Ah Built-in BMS,Low Temperature Disconnect. : Everything Else
He is getting a separate large inverter.He is still working on the charging scenario.

His battery is dedicated to the trailer where as the Blue and Jack can be used in many other ways. I find it useful in lots of circumstances including while camping around camp outside the trailer.

Luckily my units fit in my trailer. Its very convenient if it fits in the tongue box or other out of the way spot while in use. Craig pointed out the cutouts in the rigs for wire runs which is a plus. On the big units the vent location might be important.

If they fit in the rig they benefit from the heat in cold weather.

Happy hunting.
 
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JohnC said:
…I also just realized you mentioned running the fan and water pump from the solar generator? The only real way to do that would be to plug in the Sogen to the shore power receptacle. While it would work, the AC inverter overhead will run down the Sogen much sooner unless you always turned the Sogen on and off each time you used an appliance. That would then default the draw to the house battery. Something to be aware of.
Click to expand...
Having no solar or lithium solar “generator” experience, I’m hesitant but will post:

If a solar generator has a 12v output one may:
1) hit the trailer master battery switch to “off” (important!)
2) source and plug in a cable from the sogen to the trailer. On the trailer side this would be a cigarette-plug male connector, because you’ll be plugging it into any 12v socket.
3) Voila, your solar generator now takes the place of your house battery, powering all that is wired 12v in your trailer, including factory furnace, water pump, lights, etc.

Benefit:
You’re avoiding power/capacity losses from inverter overhead and battery charger overhead. These can be significant!

Notes:
If you leave the master battery switch “on” your solar generator will charge the house battery. It likely won’t be a regulated charge. I think of this as far from ideal, and possibly bad, depending.

If you have an exterior 12v socket on the trailer this is likely hooked up to a solar panel charge controller - at least it is in my 2012 CI560. That’s not where you want to plug in a sogen!

It’s worth reading / decoding the electrical diagram in the back of the CI manual for your year. My understanding is based on the 2012 diagram. Do your own homework or consult a pro!
 
JohnC said:
Seth, I was under the impression that if you turn off the house battery you lose the conductivity of the DC wiring through the trailer. Is that not the case?
Click to expand...

No John, Seth is correct. The DC switch turns off the battery from the DC wiring but the DC socket he is connecting his solar generator to is still connected to all the other DC wiring so then that DC socket becomes an input to it all and powers it all up.

Cary
 
Thanks for the confirmation Cary!

I found this method thinking through how I could power the trailer from my pony battery- same thing with a solar generator!

With my pony at 60ah and house at 100ah the master switch is real important… all AGM, the depleted house batt could quickly take the pony flat if the master switch was “on”.
 
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Cary Winch said:
No John, Seth is correct. The DC switch turns off the battery from the DC wiring but the DC socket he is connecting his solar generator to is still connected to all the other DC wiring so then that DC socket becomes an input to it all and powers it all up.

Cary
Click to expand...
OK, great! I'll have to do some more testing. I never tried that yet.

I do know that the DC draw from a solar generator does consume overhead, especially so with something that cycles on and off like a fridge. It will vary by brands and specific units. I tested the DC draw of my Dometic fridge (with the Ecoflow River Pro) when I first got it. Although I don't remember the numbers anymore, the efficiency was way less than what you will get with a 1C draw or even a .2C or .3C draw. It's quite the rabbit hole to go down trying to determine how much use you can get out of a fully charged solar generator.
 
Great information. If the socket, wire and fuse can accommodate the required amperage/wattage to run the trailer, it’s a great way to expand battery capacity without infrastructure changes. In some cases it may just be changing the fuse to 10 amps if that is needed. I am doing the same thing by adding a dedicated 12V socket which is fused for 10 amps on 16 gauge wire 3 foot run https://amzn.to/3JNk3Nr Looking at shop tour video the circuits have 10 amp fuses. If that is true its a great match for a 10 amp output power station.

Its perfect. If you already have a Jackery or Bluetti for $10 https://amzn.to/3GbYfbT you can plug in all the power you want!!! Off grid becomes more comfortable. I have done several 20 day trips off grid. Of course I recharge with solar.

The Jackery display (and everyone else) provides great info about the wattage being consumed. Easy to check each device and add up the total draw and remain within capacity.

This has been my favorite mod since I got my trailer. We can have AGM and Lithium living harmoniously and don't have to worry about electricity. Happy New Year!

=Cosmo
 
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I've been out in the garage having some fun. I've used both of my larger Ecoflow sogens as a DC source for powering the trailer. Both use regulated DC output although one is 13.6v and the other 12.6v. As expected, it works like a charm.

The one thing I've noticed is that with the house battery off, the house voltage meter is reading the voltage of the power source (sogen) and not the house battery. I also noticed that as I turned on more items, the voltage dropped a little each time. No need to panic when seeing 11.8v on the meter. LoL!

Looking forward to seeing if I can charge the sogen from the DC port while the rooftop solar is charging the battery. I did charge the sogen from the house battery through the DC port but it was pretty inefficient. I think that was due to the house battery voltage being only marginally strong enough. I'm hoping that when the solar is charging the house battery it will be more efficient at passing on power to the sogen.
 
JohnC said:
I've been out in the garage having some fun. I've used both of my larger Ecoflow sogens as a DC source for powering the trailer. Both use regulated DC output although one is 13.6v and the other 12.6v. As expected, it works like a charm.

The one thing I've noticed is that with the house battery off, the house voltage meter is reading the voltage of the power source (sogen) and not the house battery. I also noticed that as I turned on more items, the voltage dropped a little each time. No need to panic when seeing 11.8v on the meter. LoL!

Looking forward to seeing if I can charge the sogen from the DC port while the rooftop solar is charging the battery. I did charge the sogen from the house battery through the DC port but it was pretty inefficient. I think that was due to the house battery voltage being only marginally strong enough. I'm hoping that when the solar is charging the house battery it will be more efficient at passing on power to the sogen.
Click to expand...

Do you have an update on optimal arrangement for charging solar panel + house battery + sogen?
 
CosmoWeems said:
Like John I love’em

I started out with a 300. Then a 500, 1000 and now a 1500. I use them all an any given year. I have (4) 100 watt solar panels to charge them and a 200 watt folding panel on the way (supply line issues). Good idea to add up your predicted consumption before you buy. A watt is the coin of the realm. Where possible it pays to

stick with DC 12V. Inverter conversion step up to 120v is very expensive for off grid. 1000 watt waffle iron will drain a 1000 watt 12V battery in less than an hour but you will get about a dozen waffles. Then you get to enjoy a full day or more of recharge.

Amps X Volts = Watts. Watts / Volts = Amps. 10 amps on 12V = 120 watts. 10 amps on 120V=1200 Watts.

In the day I use as a pass thru system. While the Jackery is charging I charge something else. The display allows me to see if my outgo and income. If your outgo exceeds your income your upkeep will be your downfall. I try and go into the night with all batteries charged. I want heat, fridge, lights, phone, WIFI, computer, stereo, all batteries charged and anything else running. Its luxury!

The units have a cap on how much wattage you can pump in. A Jack 500 may be capped at 60 watts. So if you connect a 200 watt panel it may only accept 60 watts. BUT a 200 watt panel will be very useful in low light conditions (forest, rain and the combo) where the panel will put out less power than 200 watts – WAY less. The 200 watt panel will put out more power in low light. My 1500 charge capacity is capped at 285 watts. So I can connect several panels.

BTW rated solar output is at noon at the equator at the perfect temp. Battery output AGM and Lithium is at about +70F. Output for an AGM at -20F 40% less than +80F. All batteries suffer from cold. It lengthens the charge time and reduces capacity. Non rechargeable lithium’s are best in cold, but they too suffer.

I power a long list of stuff. The most energy hungry is the Laptop and the refrigerator Dometic CFX35 which is one of the best for low power draw.

Subtract 15% from the total rated wattage for overhead. I typically drain a 1000 watt to 20% and then recharge. But you can dring lithiums to zero. Charging another device – you loose about 20% to charging overhead, as opposed to outright running a fridge off of it with no in-between battery. I have used a 500 watt in my car and plugged the fridge into it and plugged the Jackery into the car. That way when I am driving Jack is charging. When I stop Jack keeps fridge running (pass thru charging). Its great for that.

With moveable panels so I can chase the sun as it moves around camp.

My #1 trailer improvement for boondocking has been wiring in the Jackery to the trailer for an alternate battery to power the trailer at the flip of a switch.

I sometimes camp in challenging conditions for long periods of time and I am totally dependent on solar or using the car to charge (which dislike). I am committed to solar. Those conditions take me to the edge of my 120 amp hour battery about 20% of the time. Now I switch off the trailer battery and can plug in the Jackery. Its great! I of course have a recent video on this.
Its loaded with warning to fend off people who don’t know positive from negative. Took me 15 min to do. I used a multimeter to confirm connections and avoid problems every step of the way.

Things to look for (IMO). Full disclosure. Some of my units were supplied test units. I am not bought or paid for. My views are mine.
  • I shy away from no name products and makers who cant be reached to verify these points. BTW Jackery passes all these. Other companies may too. I verified before I bought. No answer no sale.
  • Regulated output on 12V USB and 120AC. Unregulated on 12V for instance – the voltage will drop as it drains. Regulated will stay constant which is important for many digital devices.
  • USB ports wired so when multiple devices are plugged in they will maintain full output amperage and not be starved and charge slower.
  • Cold weather protection. Lithiums (unheated) can not be charged below freezing. It will damage the unit permanently. They can not be drained below +16F. Jackery provides cold cut off to protect the battery. I have a video on this too. Essentially a plastic tub as a green house.
    . Don’t I used it at +7F.
  • BMS protection and cell protection to prevent fires. BMS monitors each cell and charges that cell to capacity and prevents overcharging do to cell differences as the battery ages (battery balancing).
  • A hidden cost is connectors. I have a bushel of wire connectors. Keep that in mind. Yes I have a video on that too! Ha ha ha. I love this stuff.
You probably have seen https://www.youtube.com/c/HOBOTECH who rates this stuff and https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse. Both provide great reviews and details about all units.

=Cosmo
Click to expand...


Hey Cosmo,

First of all, love your videos, thank you for them! I bought the Jackery 1000 for the sole purpose of running my Dometic in the back of the truck and relieving the pressure off of my onboard camper battery. It charges while I drive via an auxiliary charging line run to the truck bed connected to a DC to DC charger and I keep it topped off while camping with a Jackery solar panel. Mission accomplished with one major problem. The only 12 volt out connector on the Jackery is a cigarette lighter socket. No matter what I do I cannot maintain solid connection to my Dometic. If I hit a bump it loses connection and I can never be sure my Dometic is getting power and constantly wiggling the plug and checking. I have tried several brands of male plugs, all with the same problem. It’s hard to believe there is not an Anderson Powerpole or other more secure DC out on the Jackery. Cigarette lighter plugs are ancient technology and the most insecure connection there is.

Have you experienced the same? Any thoughts on a solution before I seek a refund from Jackery? How much more power is consumed if run the Dometic on AC 110 power? At least I would have a secure connection.

Thanks!
 
Andrew Cushingham said:
Do you have an update on optimal arrangement for charging solar panel + house battery + sogen?
Click to expand...
I guess that depends on what you mean by "optimal".

I did briefly charge a sogen from the house battery while the rooftop solar was charging the house battery. It did charge faster/better than the garage experiment where I was merely draining the house battery. But I only did this for about an hour each, on two different days while camping.

Although my first tests were done that way, I wouldn't recommend charging a sogen directly from the house battery without solar concurrently feeding the house battery. Although my solar tests were short, I believe you could charge the sogen via DC in the trailer, during the day, while the solar is running, thereby avoiding the need to babysit any equipment outside. I may get a chance to better test that theory next spring.
 
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