Lithium Battery
- Thread starter Robert Gersten
- Start date
Absolutely, it's only 2.5" tall, I put a temp sensor on it and then a sheet of 1/2" plywood, temp pretty much is whatever the ambient temp is. This may change with heavy use but I had everything on until the battery died with no issues
TheSongDogHouse
Ranger
Thanks Dan, looking forward to hearing more as you road test it.
Just wanna confirm one thing...Cary or anyone correct me if I am wrong here plz.
The CTEK has the capability to decide between roof top solar or alternator power from TV via the 7pin plug.
And to charge flooded cell, AGM, liOn. See manual, just unscrew bolts on back and reroute wires) So its acting as a dc to dc charger, correct?
So you can use a bat-tree like flooded cell like Wally World trolling motor,
or an off the shelf auto Delco Platinum AGM (you gotta make a little room to get bat-tree tucked in as terminals are reversed...why they make them like that I dont know?)
And same for a LiOn, like the Precision that comes in the LiOn option new now, just set the CTEK to LiOn.
So the issue in alternator charging low voltage is that long line from the Tow Vehicle batt/alternator back to the hitch 7pin connector
and then back to the CTEK is a lot of wire, and
If your standard Uhaul guy install a Curt 7pin on your TV but failed to weather proof that 7pin connector and you collect rain/snow in there...it make resistance worse...
so if you are on anything less than 12A or 10A gage wire (for a 30a fuse?)
NOT a lot of juice is making it back there,
correct? Enough resistance and you are blowing a fuse in that line...
But in general- the CTEK can manage the solar or TV charging just fine, to any of three tyoes of bat-trees, connected properly.
Its basically the solar controller for the roof panel.
I do admire your work.
Your mod is more bulletproof and handles higher charging, tho, correct? That faster charging can be really handy if you are not making long drives between campgrounds with only alternator charging and are seeing no sun days.
PS: like your bold style on mods, Sir!
More please!
Just wanna confirm one thing...Cary or anyone correct me if I am wrong here plz.
The CTEK has the capability to decide between roof top solar or alternator power from TV via the 7pin plug.
And to charge flooded cell, AGM, liOn. See manual, just unscrew bolts on back and reroute wires) So its acting as a dc to dc charger, correct?
So you can use a bat-tree like flooded cell like Wally World trolling motor,
or an off the shelf auto Delco Platinum AGM (you gotta make a little room to get bat-tree tucked in as terminals are reversed...why they make them like that I dont know?)
And same for a LiOn, like the Precision that comes in the LiOn option new now, just set the CTEK to LiOn.
So the issue in alternator charging low voltage is that long line from the Tow Vehicle batt/alternator back to the hitch 7pin connector
and then back to the CTEK is a lot of wire, and
If your standard Uhaul guy install a Curt 7pin on your TV but failed to weather proof that 7pin connector and you collect rain/snow in there...it make resistance worse...
so if you are on anything less than 12A or 10A gage wire (for a 30a fuse?)
NOT a lot of juice is making it back there,
correct? Enough resistance and you are blowing a fuse in that line...
But in general- the CTEK can manage the solar or TV charging just fine, to any of three tyoes of bat-trees, connected properly.
Its basically the solar controller for the roof panel.
I do admire your work.
Your mod is more bulletproof and handles higher charging, tho, correct? That faster charging can be really handy if you are not making long drives between campgrounds with only alternator charging and are seeing no sun days.
PS: like your bold style on mods, Sir!
More please!
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Sweeney, do you have rooftop solar? I'm not sure about your power draw but your trailer is newer than mine I believe. Mine was new June 2021 with an AGM battery. I just had a conversation with Cary and to make a long story short, your AGM might have a lot more life in it if you're using rooftop solar on your trips. Don't be in a hurry to dump that AGM battery.
SethB
Ranger
Long lines = voltage drop, larger wire helps reduce or eliminate drop.
I believe *my* U-Haul shop installed 10ga wire (that’s not the same as 10a!) From my understanding that’s standard for an automotive power circuit, but… not completely sure how many shops agree with that!
Back in my slide-in truck bed 4WC popup camper days a lot of folks were craving ice for their adult beverages, and it became quite the brag to talk about 4ga, 2ga, 00 welding wire, and heavy duty alternators to supply the juice. Myself, I’m still looking for a good icecream sandwich when camping…
All I can confidently say is that from my own experience, it doesn’t take but 1.5 hrs or less to charge my 100ah AGM from a standard alternator via CTEK 12v charger (no over the road solar on my 560). On 10ga wire…
What I love about the CTEK and other 12v chargers is that whatever trash you throw at it will be converted to a healthy battery charging voltage/amperage profile.
Yes, the 7 pin has a 20a fuse on my system, I think it'hs a 10 or 12 awg going to the battery in the camper as well. The wire gauge definitely will determine how much power you can send before it gets too hot. I was getting 2-3 amps without the dc to dc, so charging would take awhile. I dont have solar, they make a dc to dc mppt charger that supports it. I went with the victron dc to dc. 12 12 50, yesterday I was getting 19.2a going to starter battery and 19.5 going to the camper , I can live with that. The campinn guys really set this up to be low power , I'm thinking with the 100a battery I can get close to a week if I'm careful, the way I set it up is, starter battery. 100a li in the rear of the van , (completely portable , I used the litime 100a heated bt battery, in the litime case ,which has a couple of usb and lighter ports. Then I made a cable w anderson plugs, and an access port in the rear, another anderson next to the 7 pin, to the camper. From there all the way back to battery in camper another 100Ah li.)
Should be plenty, my van has an entertainment center that really sucks down the power , thats why the extra battery. So essentially I have the starter battery, then 2 100Ah li batteries so my system reads 12v 200ah. You can wire it so it's 24v 100ah which I believe allows smaller gauge wiring?
One thing I noticed, and I think it's related to my dc dc charger, once I had all the batteries connected I experimented with the 7 pin. Seems that it's sending 6 to 8 amps with everything connected, however, when the Vans not running it can pull power from the camper , I need to read the manual, to see it the starter battery is affected, not supposed to be. If not I may use both for even faster charging, if so , I'll install a switch to cancel the 7pin power.
TheSongDogHouse
Ranger
Thanks Seth for the catch on my typo.
PS: to all those viewing- DO NOT FOLLOW my wanderings here as advice...more a cautionary tale of how to seriously confuse oneself without expert advice...
Oh, and as they say on auto forums from time to time: "RTFM!"...
As in to myself,
"Self remember to RTFM before posting a dumb question...or answer..."
CTEK; yep same for me so far...
Yeah FWC ...got ya on the gear thing.
I had noodled on an idea to upgrade power in my little VW Alltrack based on watching that StealthGTI guy on youtube,
Plus some generic auto stereo shop suggestions on upgrading wires, ("the big three") and maybe a rewound alternator, but when it came down to it the best in area auto stereo shop recanted- "uh, your engine compartment is too tight", and "ask your mechanic"
And
my trusted VW mech said, "uh nope we dont do those kind of aftermarket electrical upgrades..."
Back to KISS: more camping less gear noodling, save $$$.
Heh. Guess I'll have to wait awhile on the TV replacement as most expensive CI accessory...
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TheSongDogHouse
Ranger
Hmmm. Very interesting!
So if I understand it, you have two separate LiOn batts, one in the van, fed by a dc to dc to from the alternator/starter battery (12v flooded cell or AGM?)
And the other in the CI, also fed in a separate line or "side" by the a second dc to dc to the lion?
Are both dc to dc--> lion sides
and starter battery all charging from alternator same time?
Or
Is there an isolator device, like a manual a/b switch to charge lions one side at a time?
Yes, the starter battery (agm) /alternator , then the dc to dc runs back to the rear li battery, via anderson outlet in rear ( rear is a 100ah li time with bt and a self heating mat) wire continues to a second anderson connector next to 7 pin connect to the dc to dc , I installed a shut off next to the DC to dc , on the ci , I ran a 6awg cable set from the front ( another anderson connector which connects to the van along side of the 7pin) . To the wiring in the rear , where the old battery was. The second li is very thin 2.5" high, so I put that in the bay next to sink and installed a false bottom to protect it.
So it's
Starter battery/ alternator to dc to dc
Dc to dc to rear of vans 2nd li battery
Then to ci battery via new anderson cable connection. I can remove the rear battery in the van by simply unplugging the anderson connector , and still have charging to the ci battery. When they're all connected the dc to dc charger thinks it's 1 battery 12v x 200ah, when 1 is not connected it's 12v x 100ah.
You can also wire them serially and would show 24v @100ah ( you can use smaller gauge wire this way, I dont see any need, but if you were going 400ah or more the size of the wire gets to be an issue. Like if you wanted to run the ac and a big inverter you'd need alot of power and even 0 gauge has limitations)
I picked up a battery box from litime that makes the rear van battery portable, I can unplug it and bring it into the ci or tent or wherever and it has 2 usb and 2 lighter outlets to use.if needed.
The dc to dc charger prevents the starter battery from getting too low as well.
I'm still playing around with the 7pin, it does add to charging, without the dc charger I measured 2 to 3a , with the dc charger it jumps to 6to 8a , my van came with a smart alternator that varies the output, so the dc charger may help get the alternator pushing more power. , I did notice that it draws power away from the ci when the engine is off, so I'm either going to remember to unplug the 7pin when camping or install a switch to cut the power wire off.
I was able to use the ci 50a breaker for the battery, and I put 60a breakers on the other 2 to be safe.
So far it's been flawless, I was messing around in the van watching the entertainment center while parked, forgot to shut off the key after, 3 hrs later I noticed the headlights still on, starter battery was still charged and rear battery down 10%.
The 2 lithium batteries will balance themselves automatically with the dc charger.
Without the dc charger I understand that all batteries connected together will exchange power , and won't properly charge to their full potential, also li shouldn't charge if it's too cold nor too hot . I live in nh so thats why I got the heated battery for the van. The camper will not be used in winter.
SethB
Ranger
Oh, please don’t take me for the grammar police!
It used to be that automotive electric specialty shops were commonplace, and would do anything you wanted after a little head scratching. I don’t know how many are left! But it’s also true that the truck bed camper crew were customizing much larger vehicles than your VW, with room to get in and stand next to your engine under the hood. Typing this I wonder… now there are 4WD specialty shops installing all kinds of mods, I wonder if they would install a heavier alternator…? And some 6ga, 4ga, or 2ga. Then you’d need the same on the camper…
I think I’ve reluctantly accepted that ice cream sandwiches while camping will remain a dream… except my local grocery store has dry ice…! If we ever get camping this season I should try that. Lots of family transitions events are keeping us out of the woods so far. Och.
I think it all comes down to what your existing wire for power is, and the limitations of the charger, my vans 7pin power wire has a 20a fuse, my charger is capable of 50a , but my battery requires either 20 or 40 depending on which instructions you read, so far it's only used 19.4 per battery . I used 6awg for the long run, the charger says it will accept 4awg , but even with a ferrule I couldn't get it in. 6 is more than enough. I suppose you could run a bigger wire to and from the 7pin . Ci may already mine is a 17. The camper doesn't really require much, I turned on every light, the refrigerator and ran a DVD and the battery lasted 26 hrs.
It's a challenge doing all this after the fact. Trying not to drill any holes and keep up the quality standards they used is not easy, fun though
SethB
Ranger
I was never sure about this, but near as I could figure out the amperage figure battery manufacturers spec for charging is the max a particular battery will draw. Again, it’s been a while, but in researching the Victron Super Duty AGM batteries I bought (one still in use as the CI “house” battery), there is no need to purchase a charger above a certain amp rating, but perfectly OK to hook up a lower amperage charger, expecting longer charge times. At least in the Bulk phase of a lead acid battery charge cycle. I suppose Lithium batts are probably different, in that chargers sustain a given volt/amp output until near the end of the cycle.
I think CI is installing 10ga/awg for the charger run from the 7-pin.
Ain’t that the truth!
Then there’s the math. 12.8v or so times 20a or so is 256w, Google’s AI says 384 watts maximum through 40’ run of 10awg at 12.8v. Voltage drop *should* be very small, less than 1/10th of a volt.
I just switched to li , i turned on all the lights, the fan , ran a dvd continuosly, and pluhged in the refridgerator, i got 26 hrs to dead. In a garage around 48 to 55 degrees
Was that with both 100AH Li batteries or just the one in the CI?
Old_Prospector
Junior Ranger
My CampInn 560 is 10 years old, # 752 built in 2015. I wanted to upgrade to LiFePO4 system for sometime. I live in the Phoenix area, but had a Family Reunion trip this year at the Black Hills. So, my trip was expanded to include a visit to the Mother Ship in Necedah. To me it was very much worth the extra miles. My trip was from the middle of June through the second week of July.
The research that Craig and Cary put into manufacturing our camping trailers is amazing. I'm very pleased with the installation of the lithium system. Additionally, there were some other work I wanted performed and some that were discovered while at their facilities. I had scheduled two days in the CampInn, and they were able to accommodate me.
To others considering having work performed at CampInn, they have an employee named Chris, who is the most attentive and observant craftsman / mechanic I've had the pleasure to meet. While he is performing service per the work order and notices that something else needs attention, it will be addressed by him, or if it falls into an extra charge item, he will revise Craig or Cary bring it to my attention. There were 3 or 4 items that would have likely become gremlins down to road, if not found by Chris. All corrections and extra work fit into the two day visit.
I feel my Trailer has a new lease on life. Unless you are an accomplished electrician, and I'm not, I highly recommend anyone wanting to convert to lithium to have this performed by Cary, Craig and team. Also, I felt the cost was quite reasonable.
The research that Craig and Cary put into manufacturing our camping trailers is amazing. I'm very pleased with the installation of the lithium system. Additionally, there were some other work I wanted performed and some that were discovered while at their facilities. I had scheduled two days in the CampInn, and they were able to accommodate me.
To others considering having work performed at CampInn, they have an employee named Chris, who is the most attentive and observant craftsman / mechanic I've had the pleasure to meet. While he is performing service per the work order and notices that something else needs attention, it will be addressed by him, or if it falls into an extra charge item, he will revise Craig or Cary bring it to my attention. There were 3 or 4 items that would have likely become gremlins down to road, if not found by Chris. All corrections and extra work fit into the two day visit.
I feel my Trailer has a new lease on life. Unless you are an accomplished electrician, and I'm not, I highly recommend anyone wanting to convert to lithium to have this performed by Cary, Craig and team. Also, I felt the cost was quite reasonable.