I had heard the stories of weird stuff happening if you tried to pull the brake signal up front so I stayed completely away from the multiplex wires coming out of the brake pedal and got the brake signal for the controller directly from one of the wires running to a brake light. That meant I had to run a wire from back to front but it works great and doesn't confuse anything. Really wasn't a big deal in the end, just bundled that wire with power wires.
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How Large a vehicle do I really need
- Thread starter jpbrew
- Start date
Jim49
Novice
Towing with a hybrid
We have been using a highlander hybrid since 2008 with both our Raindrop (1600 lbs loaded) and an enclosed cargo trailer ( 3000 lbs ) used for train shows. Our Highlander was ordered with a factory tow package and is rated at (3500 lbs) and is V6 powered. The following items effect your mpg: temperature - ideal milage is gotten at around 80 F degrees, when you are cruising on flat land you get mid 20s (25-27) at 75 mph the trick is to not needing to add any significant power to maintain speed, mountains will bring down you mpg when you climb but you can get it back on the down side if you know how to take advantage I have gotten millage as high as 60 mpg which you give back over time, if your engine is cold you will not get optimal mpg, rain/weather will reduce your milage. To sum things up a mixed group of of effect can leave you with a milage figure around 22-23 mpg on tank of gas ( 3 hours driving). One nice thing about the Highlander is its instrumentation allows you to see you instant mpg to help you with your driving style. Hope this helps a little.
Jim H
We have been using a highlander hybrid since 2008 with both our Raindrop (1600 lbs loaded) and an enclosed cargo trailer ( 3000 lbs ) used for train shows. Our Highlander was ordered with a factory tow package and is rated at (3500 lbs) and is V6 powered. The following items effect your mpg: temperature - ideal milage is gotten at around 80 F degrees, when you are cruising on flat land you get mid 20s (25-27) at 75 mph the trick is to not needing to add any significant power to maintain speed, mountains will bring down you mpg when you climb but you can get it back on the down side if you know how to take advantage I have gotten millage as high as 60 mpg which you give back over time, if your engine is cold you will not get optimal mpg, rain/weather will reduce your milage. To sum things up a mixed group of of effect can leave you with a milage figure around 22-23 mpg on tank of gas ( 3 hours driving). One nice thing about the Highlander is its instrumentation allows you to see you instant mpg to help you with your driving style. Hope this helps a little.
Jim H
birder526
Novice
Hi Jim,
We have a 4Runner SR5 V6 for towing. We won't have our trailer until around April 1 so we can't speak from experience. But your situation with the Highlander gives us an idea of what to expect. We like the feature of seeing the current mpg that our 4Runner has as well.
Happy trails!
We have a 4Runner SR5 V6 for towing. We won't have our trailer until around April 1 so we can't speak from experience. But your situation with the Highlander gives us an idea of what to expect. We like the feature of seeing the current mpg that our 4Runner has as well.
Happy trails!
Cary Winch
Camp-Inn Staff
One more input on the brake switch wire concern with the European vehicles. One customer of ours has a VW Tiguan and had issues with trailer braking.
He originally ran into this same concern so opted to go with the Prodigy RF brake controller so he would not have to deal with this. He was having problems pairing the Prodigy but was able to accomplish by using a different tow vehicle first then connecting to the Tiguan. We thought that solved it. Problem is the Prodigy loses it's pairing if it sits a couple of weeks and he had to do it every time he used the trailer. This got old so he ditched the RF brake controller.
His solution was to go to the auto parts store and purchase a fairly generic brake light switch for the brake pedal of a different car. He made a simple angle mount for it on his brake pedal of the Tiguan. Ran the brake light wire from a standard brake controller to this switch. Problem solved without having to mess with the funny electrical.
Cary
He originally ran into this same concern so opted to go with the Prodigy RF brake controller so he would not have to deal with this. He was having problems pairing the Prodigy but was able to accomplish by using a different tow vehicle first then connecting to the Tiguan. We thought that solved it. Problem is the Prodigy loses it's pairing if it sits a couple of weeks and he had to do it every time he used the trailer. This got old so he ditched the RF brake controller.
His solution was to go to the auto parts store and purchase a fairly generic brake light switch for the brake pedal of a different car. He made a simple angle mount for it on his brake pedal of the Tiguan. Ran the brake light wire from a standard brake controller to this switch. Problem solved without having to mess with the funny electrical.
Cary
Hi JPBrew!
We have a 2007 Subaru Outback 2.5i with a 2,700 lb tow rating. I think it's the same model/year/color as Mr. Edevold's? I know there are other owners out there with newer Outbacks, but here’s our experience so far:
1st point: fuel economy:
Our gas mileage is supposed to be up to 28 mpg on the highway. According to the car’s calculations, I would say that’s actually fairly close. Towing our 550, it's somewhere between 19 - 21 mpg. Now, that's all been within 300 mi of Chicago - some hills but a lot of flatland. We almost never take the interstate and we almost always buy the cheapest grade of gas (but never the E-85).
2nd point: storage capacity:
We used to car camp with the Subaru (with Tim's twin boys) and it was a tight fit! Now, we have plenty of room - on a weekend trip we don't necessarily have to put anything on the back seats. On longer trips, when we would take our kayaks (on the top of the car) and maybe some basic backpacking equipment, we would definitely fill up the back. We don’t put much extra in the cabin - a couple of fender tables and maybe our plastic shoe-boxes.
Note: The newer Outbacks have been seriously re-styled - in my opinion, they look more like a SUV than a station wagon - don’t know if there’s any effect on actual storage capacity.
I've heard, anecdotally, that the 4 cylinder Outback tows better than the 6 cylinder. Again, don’t know if that applies to the new vehicles. Tim says he can sometimes "feel" the camper back there but it's not a bad feeling – just a little extra weight. We have trailer brakes and Tim added a transmission cooler and a K&N air filter.
I’ve also heard that it’s difficult to put a hitch on an Outback - that some places refuse to do it. We went with a local snowplow/trailer hitch company and they didn’t seem to have any problems with the hitch or the electric.
Hope that helps!
p.s. maybe try packing your PT Cruiser with all your car-camping stuff MINUS the stuff you’ll be packing into the teardrop (bedding, cooking utensils, probably most of your food) – you’ll get a better idea of how much space you’re looking at - the Camp Inn has A LOT of storage - and don't forget the front storage compartments - they both (inside & outside) hold a lot of stuff!
Here’s an interesting auto website, not just about Subaru’s : http://www.cars101.com/subaru_sitemap.html
We have a 2007 Subaru Outback 2.5i with a 2,700 lb tow rating. I think it's the same model/year/color as Mr. Edevold's? I know there are other owners out there with newer Outbacks, but here’s our experience so far:
1st point: fuel economy:
Our gas mileage is supposed to be up to 28 mpg on the highway. According to the car’s calculations, I would say that’s actually fairly close. Towing our 550, it's somewhere between 19 - 21 mpg. Now, that's all been within 300 mi of Chicago - some hills but a lot of flatland. We almost never take the interstate and we almost always buy the cheapest grade of gas (but never the E-85).
2nd point: storage capacity:
We used to car camp with the Subaru (with Tim's twin boys) and it was a tight fit! Now, we have plenty of room - on a weekend trip we don't necessarily have to put anything on the back seats. On longer trips, when we would take our kayaks (on the top of the car) and maybe some basic backpacking equipment, we would definitely fill up the back. We don’t put much extra in the cabin - a couple of fender tables and maybe our plastic shoe-boxes.
Note: The newer Outbacks have been seriously re-styled - in my opinion, they look more like a SUV than a station wagon - don’t know if there’s any effect on actual storage capacity.
I've heard, anecdotally, that the 4 cylinder Outback tows better than the 6 cylinder. Again, don’t know if that applies to the new vehicles. Tim says he can sometimes "feel" the camper back there but it's not a bad feeling – just a little extra weight. We have trailer brakes and Tim added a transmission cooler and a K&N air filter.
I’ve also heard that it’s difficult to put a hitch on an Outback - that some places refuse to do it. We went with a local snowplow/trailer hitch company and they didn’t seem to have any problems with the hitch or the electric.
Hope that helps!
p.s. maybe try packing your PT Cruiser with all your car-camping stuff MINUS the stuff you’ll be packing into the teardrop (bedding, cooking utensils, probably most of your food) – you’ll get a better idea of how much space you’re looking at - the Camp Inn has A LOT of storage - and don't forget the front storage compartments - they both (inside & outside) hold a lot of stuff!
Here’s an interesting auto website, not just about Subaru’s : http://www.cars101.com/subaru_sitemap.html
Last edited by a moderator:
jpbrew
Novice
Thanks everyone for posting on this thread. After reading everything and looking at vehicles, I believe we are down to choosing between my original picks, which is an Outback and the Ford Edge. Both have ample room, AWD and good ground clearance, although the Outback has a little more ground clearance than the Ford. The Outback also gets better gas mileage, while the Ford comes standard with a V-6, which computes to slightly better HP and Torque which could result in better gas mileage while towing. The Ford also has the optional Ecoboost 4 cylinder, which gets better gas mileage than the 6 cylinder. And then the is the ever present "frontal area square footage" issue which I still don't quite understand. Cary, maybe you can enlighten me with this issue as we plan to purchase a 560 in the future.
Final issue is the trailer wiring hookup. Both vehicles have four pin wiring connectors ready (you just need to know where to look to find them), and you can buy the 4 pin to 7 pin adaptors, which seen to be wired correctly for trailer lights consistent with CI. I need information on the rest, such as battery charge (switch mounted in the CI), backup lights, and electric brakes (although instructions come with the controller).
Again thanks everyone for the numerous and outstanding posts.
JP
Final issue is the trailer wiring hookup. Both vehicles have four pin wiring connectors ready (you just need to know where to look to find them), and you can buy the 4 pin to 7 pin adaptors, which seen to be wired correctly for trailer lights consistent with CI. I need information on the rest, such as battery charge (switch mounted in the CI), backup lights, and electric brakes (although instructions come with the controller).
Again thanks everyone for the numerous and outstanding posts.
JP
JP
Having towed several boats, we always purchase a tow vehicle with the tow package. It will give you most if not all that you need. When we bought our last jeep grand cherokee with the tow package, we just bought the adaptor from Jeep for the conversion of 4 pin to 7 pin. Adaptor still works with our new Jeep GC. Jeep GC is a great vehicle for towing. Probably a little overkill for a CI. Mine has hemi. With the new overdrive module, it actually gets better mileage towing and non towing than my old 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee. 22miles without towing on highway, 18 miles with large Ranger boat behind it. Once we are going to replace my husband's Camry, we are looking at the new Jeep Cherokees which get slightly better mileage and can still tow alot.
Gina
Having towed several boats, we always purchase a tow vehicle with the tow package. It will give you most if not all that you need. When we bought our last jeep grand cherokee with the tow package, we just bought the adaptor from Jeep for the conversion of 4 pin to 7 pin. Adaptor still works with our new Jeep GC. Jeep GC is a great vehicle for towing. Probably a little overkill for a CI. Mine has hemi. With the new overdrive module, it actually gets better mileage towing and non towing than my old 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee. 22miles without towing on highway, 18 miles with large Ranger boat behind it. Once we are going to replace my husband's Camry, we are looking at the new Jeep Cherokees which get slightly better mileage and can still tow alot.
Gina
Genug
Newbie
Cary mentioned the customer towing with the BMW X5 Diesel. That would be me so I will share my experience so far. First off the X5 has a 6,000 lb towing capacity and the diesel has 425 lbs of torque so the hardest part about pulling the 550 is trying to remember it is back there
I had the BMW factory wiring harness included as part of the hitch install, the vehicle computer was recoded to recognize the the harness and I have not had any of the electronic issues that Cary mentioned with other European vehicles
I had read, however, that wireing for the break controller could be a hassle so I went with the Tekonsha Prodigy RF controller. I had it shipped to Necedah and Cary had it installed on the trailer and ready to go when I picked up the trailer. It was little difficult to sync up the first time, but most of that was human error and not reading the instructions. I have not had to pair it again even if it is months between use. I am quite pleased with the RF unit and like the fact that I can stow it away when not in use.
As far as mileage, we drove from California to Necedah in May to pick up the TD and averaged 26 mpg on the way out. On the trip home towing the trailer we averaged 25 mpg. I am sure mileage would improve with a lighter foot.
All in all the X5 turned out to be a great tow vehicle
I had the BMW factory wiring harness included as part of the hitch install, the vehicle computer was recoded to recognize the the harness and I have not had any of the electronic issues that Cary mentioned with other European vehicles
I had read, however, that wireing for the break controller could be a hassle so I went with the Tekonsha Prodigy RF controller. I had it shipped to Necedah and Cary had it installed on the trailer and ready to go when I picked up the trailer. It was little difficult to sync up the first time, but most of that was human error and not reading the instructions. I have not had to pair it again even if it is months between use. I am quite pleased with the RF unit and like the fact that I can stow it away when not in use.
As far as mileage, we drove from California to Necedah in May to pick up the TD and averaged 26 mpg on the way out. On the trip home towing the trailer we averaged 25 mpg. I am sure mileage would improve with a lighter foot.
All in all the X5 turned out to be a great tow vehicle
I give the Prodigy RF high marks too. The pairing is pretty simple and I like the fact that I can switch to any tow vehicle with the unit. As far as a tow vehicle we are going with a Ford Explorer Limited with a V-6 this spring. More than enough to haul our 560 and plenty of space all our supplies.
birder526
Novice
Hi!
This all is confusing me -- we have ordered the electric brake package from CI (550 Special and Toyota 4Runner V6); is this brake controller something we need as well? This is what I read the controller is for:
"Brake controller activates trailer brakes in proportion to your vehicle's braking action.
Automatically adjusts trailer's braking based on deceleration of tow vehicle.
Activates immediately - no pausing like with time-delayed brake controllers."
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
This all is confusing me -- we have ordered the electric brake package from CI (550 Special and Toyota 4Runner V6); is this brake controller something we need as well? This is what I read the controller is for:
"Brake controller activates trailer brakes in proportion to your vehicle's braking action.
Automatically adjusts trailer's braking based on deceleration of tow vehicle.
Activates immediately - no pausing like with time-delayed brake controllers."
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Cary Winch
Camp-Inn Staff
Diane,
Having the seven pin alone does not mean you have a controller too. You would know if you had one, it would be the annoying box down under the dash that you hit your shin on all the time. Likely it still needs to have one installed.
Was the seven pin a factory install from Toyota? If it is that is good. There will be a harness they can use to connect up the controller, the wiring is already all built in if it has the factory 7 pin.
Cary
Having the seven pin alone does not mean you have a controller too. You would know if you had one, it would be the annoying box down under the dash that you hit your shin on all the time. Likely it still needs to have one installed.
Was the seven pin a factory install from Toyota? If it is that is good. There will be a harness they can use to connect up the controller, the wiring is already all built in if it has the factory 7 pin.
Cary
birder526
Novice
Cary,
We are going to have Toyota look at our 4Runner to tell us if the 7 pin is a factory job. We haven't been beating up our shins under the dash so it appears we don't have the connector! Where do we get a connector (do you recommend?) and who installs it (Toyota or CI)?
What happens if the 7 pin was NOT a factory install?
Thank you, Cary!
We are going to have Toyota look at our 4Runner to tell us if the 7 pin is a factory job. We haven't been beating up our shins under the dash so it appears we don't have the connector! Where do we get a connector (do you recommend?) and who installs it (Toyota or CI)?
What happens if the 7 pin was NOT a factory install?
Thank you, Cary!
Cary Winch
Camp-Inn Staff
Diane and Michael,
I would start with checking with the dealer first. They will at least need to provide you with the connector for the controller.
If it is not a factory one then any shop that does this type of work would have to do a "old school" install on the controller.
Cary
I would start with checking with the dealer first. They will at least need to provide you with the connector for the controller.
If it is not a factory one then any shop that does this type of work would have to do a "old school" install on the controller.
Cary
Diane_Michael said:
I've got a 2013 Toyota Tacoma that came with the tow package option from the factory. As long as you have that factory option, there should be a plug under the dash for a brake controller. It was not in a box, it is simply the plug attached to the wires. I found mine kind of tucked into the side panel, near the energency brake pedal assembly. It took a bit of tugging and prying to get it out, but wasn't difficult to do. You might do a YouTube search to get a better idea on what to look for...
Good luck.
Lh303
Novice
I tow my 550 ULTRA with a Toyota RAV4 V6. Plenty of room in the back for gear and good mileage and power,even at my location of +5000'. New Rav4s have 4 Cylinder, not sure what the ratings are for that model. The only thing that I have to be careful of is not exceeding 75MPH since I hardly feel the trailer.
Old_Prospector
Junior Ranger
I have a V6 Toyota FJ Cruiser with five speed automatic transmission, so I cannot really answer your question with experience about a 4 Cylinder engine.
Most of the time on level roads, I can drive pulling a light trailer in fifth gear without constantly shifting to maintain speed. Fifth gear is really an overdrive to run highway speeds at a lower rpm. When driving in the Colorado mountains, I usually leave the transmission in fourth gear to avoid constant shifting and suffer reduced gas mileage.
A 4 cylinder (unless diesel) will have a lower torque and horsepower for most, if not all, rpms than found in a V6. Of course a lot depends on the entire drive train, engine, transmission and rear differential, not just the engine. However, I believe a 4 cylinder vehicle will experience a lot more automatic gear shifting to maintain constant speed. There are some that prefer a manual transmission and enjoy shifting, so that might not be an issue for them.
Remember that ideally the trailer is equal to or less than half the weight of the tow vehicle. I looked up the new RAV 4 and the maximum towing capacity is 1500 pounds, even though the vehicle curb weight is 3450 pounds. This means that you can no longer put Uncle Fred in the trailer when driving.
After Looking at all the specifications for the new RAV 4, I wouldn't consider one for pulling the 550. Toyota has been beat up with a few lawsuits (a couple of which were bogus and only served to damage their reputation), so they may be extra conservative in their specifications.
Most of the time on level roads, I can drive pulling a light trailer in fifth gear without constantly shifting to maintain speed. Fifth gear is really an overdrive to run highway speeds at a lower rpm. When driving in the Colorado mountains, I usually leave the transmission in fourth gear to avoid constant shifting and suffer reduced gas mileage.
A 4 cylinder (unless diesel) will have a lower torque and horsepower for most, if not all, rpms than found in a V6. Of course a lot depends on the entire drive train, engine, transmission and rear differential, not just the engine. However, I believe a 4 cylinder vehicle will experience a lot more automatic gear shifting to maintain constant speed. There are some that prefer a manual transmission and enjoy shifting, so that might not be an issue for them.
Remember that ideally the trailer is equal to or less than half the weight of the tow vehicle. I looked up the new RAV 4 and the maximum towing capacity is 1500 pounds, even though the vehicle curb weight is 3450 pounds. This means that you can no longer put Uncle Fred in the trailer when driving.
After Looking at all the specifications for the new RAV 4, I wouldn't consider one for pulling the 550. Toyota has been beat up with a few lawsuits (a couple of which were bogus and only served to damage their reputation), so they may be extra conservative in their specifications.
paulina graziose
Newbie
does anyone own a 2013 subaru impreza sport?
hi! i am new here and want to buy the 550 ultra. the subaru manual says my car cannot tow????????
haha. this is after i had a class 1 hitch put on for 2000 pound capacity towing. i think that because the sport is lower to the ground- just guessing here- subaru decided these are not good models for towing anything. i am taking a wild stab in the dark but someone probably complained or tried to sue them. sigh. this is usually how things go.
the people who installed the hitch and racks to my car put on the hitch for 2012-2014 legacy. i would love to have some input. cary thought subaru may not honor my warranty if i hitch a camp inn on it. thanks for any feedback!
hi! i am new here and want to buy the 550 ultra. the subaru manual says my car cannot tow????????
haha. this is after i had a class 1 hitch put on for 2000 pound capacity towing. i think that because the sport is lower to the ground- just guessing here- subaru decided these are not good models for towing anything. i am taking a wild stab in the dark but someone probably complained or tried to sue them. sigh. this is usually how things go.
the people who installed the hitch and racks to my car put on the hitch for 2012-2014 legacy. i would love to have some input. cary thought subaru may not honor my warranty if i hitch a camp inn on it. thanks for any feedback!