Tongue Jack Upgrade - Maybe

[dirty6]

Happy spring! During the winter here in Alaska, I came across a new tongue jack I wanted to try out for our 560. I ordered it and placed it in the garage, waiting for the camper to come out of storage so I could try installing it.

This particular jack will hopefully solve a few issues for us. First, the factory jack is challenging to maneuver on hard pavement (the plastic wheel doesn't grip the pavement well, and tries to slide rather than spin). Second, on soft ground the wheel buries itself and becomes immobile. And finally, getting the best grip and steering can be a challenge.

Today I got the camper out of storage, eager to install the jack that has been sitting in my garage for 3 months aaaaaaaaaaand it doesn't fit. Drat.

First things first, check out the upgrade. That bugger looks beefy. It weighs about 60 pounds and is no joke to drag around the garage in its hefty box.

IMG_2055

• dirty6
• Apr 23, 2021

The jack comes with some install hardware - 4 bolts, 4 nuts, and these bars intended to go on the opposite side of the tongue to brace the jack to the tongue.

IMG_2062

• dirty6
• Apr 23, 2021

Of course, I was really really hoping that the bolt pattern and the bolts would match up just fine with the factory jack, and I wouldn't have to use the provided hardware.

IMG_2056

• dirty6
• Apr 23, 2021

The universe disagreed with my mojo. The holes on the new jack, and the bolts, are larger than the factory holes/bolts.

IMG_2059

• dirty6
• Apr 23, 2021

I was going to go ahead and use the factory bolts, which would have put a little bit of play in the connection, until I could get a proper answer from a local dealer, or Camp-Inn, or you all.

IMG_2058

• dirty6
• Apr 23, 2021

IMG_2057

• dirty6
• Apr 23, 2021

But just as I tried that out, problem #2 presented itself: the hole pattern on the new jack is way too wide, which is hard to make out in this picture.

IMG_2060

• dirty6
• Apr 23, 2021

So, I've come to the conclusion that the only way to make this work is to drill new holes into the tongue of the trailer. The dimensions look like they *might* work, but before I take such a drastic step I really need to be sure.

According to my trusty ruler, the tongue bar is right at 2.5 inches from top to bottom. As you can see in this image, the bolt holes on the new jack are 1.75 inches from top to bottom, which would leave just a shade over a third of an inch of steel above and below the bolts. My zillion dollar question right now is .... will that work?

IMG_2061

• dirty6
• Apr 23, 2021

Bear in mind that a strong connection between the trailer and the tongue jack is especially important to us, as we use a roof top tent and end up putting a lot of weight on the tongue jack. I'm sending a note to Cary to ask the same, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts as well.

Let me know how hosed I am!

 

[Lipster]

Not sure I'd add 60 pounds to my tongue for any reason, but if it solves your issues, you could go to a welder and have
a plate welded to the tongue that would accommodate the beefy new jack.

 

[Randy]

Don’t know if this post would give you any ideas or not.

Fulton Swivel Jack Upgrade

 

[dirty6]

Don’t know if this post would give you any ideas or not.

Fulton Swivel Jack Upgrade

Thanks, I've read through that a few times back when I was searching for a new tongue jack. Perhaps that route is what I'll end up going with. I am unsure though if the brackets that came with my new jack will fit in the tight space around the propane tank.

 

[dirty6]

Not sure I'd add 60 pounds to my tongue for any reason, but if it solves your issues, you could go to a welder and have
a plate welded to the tongue that would accommodate the beefy new jack.

It won't add 60 exactly, it will only add the difference between the factory jack and the new one. Our tow vehicle has plenty of capacity, so I don't worry much about tongue weight. I know that is a different concern for others.

Perhaps a weld shop is in my future!

 

[dirty6]

For anyone who has a care about this, an update:

I've consulted with a far more mechanically inclined friend than myself, and we have come up with two reasonable options. The first is the most expensive - go to a weld shop, have a mounting bracket fabricated and welded to the trailer tongue, and then bolt the new tongue jack to newly fabricated mounting bracket.

Because I am a dolt, my friend also discovered another possible solution. You may have noticed that the hole pattern on my tongue jack is not consistent, some of the holes are closer to their neighbors than others. When the jack came out of the box, the mounting plate had two of the holes on the bottom and three holes on the top. The bottom holes were further apart - these are the holes that wouldn't fit the existing tongue jack holes. But what I failed to realize is that the whole plate can swivel -- so the three hole section could be on the bottom. Two of those three holes are exactly teh same distance center point to center point as the factory CI tongue jack holes. A solution is brewing.

IMG_2097

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

Using these two holes on the new jack, it looks like we can widen the factory drilled holes on the tongue just slightly to accommodate the larger hardware. This allows us to use the right pair of factory drilled holes.

Then, since the new jack swivel plate is larger than the factory plate, two new holes have to be drilled to accommodate the left pair of holes. It looks like that new pair of holes will have to be drilled very close to the point where the safety chains are bolted onto the tongue.

IMG_2096

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

That space in between the current tongue jack and the safety chain is where the new holes will go. The big question right now is: Notice that the tongue has a slight extra lip of reinforcing steel welded on. This steel seems to reinforce the tongue where the jack is mounted. My two new holes would be on a portion of the tongue that does NOT have that bit of reinforcement. I am now curious if that will be a problem?

A couple more images of the relative mounting point on the opposite side of the tongue, for reference:

IMG_2095

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

IMG_2094

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

So I'm thinking: Drill the two new holes, widen the two existing right-side holes, buy 4 new bolts and call it a day. And if that doesn't work to satisfaction, pay a guy to fabricate/weld a mounting plate onto the side of the tongue.

 

[Randy]

I think it could easily be welded on?

 

[dirty6]

I think it could easily be welded on?

You're correct, I could just weld the jack directly to the tongue. I'm leaning away from that because if I ever have a maintenance issue with the jack or need to replace it...cutting it/grinding it off the trailer vice unscrewing the bolts is the concern in my head.

 

[dirty6]

Yet another update:

To test the theory that I can utilize the right side factory drilled holes, I unmounted the original jack and lined up the new one: seems to be confirmed as a good theory.

IMG_2099

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

So then I "faux-mounted" the new jack using the original bolts. Of course, I can only mount the right side bolts because I don't have matching holes on the left side. Looks like so:

IMG_2104

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

IMG_2105

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

So far so good. Here's an up close look at the clearance I have above and below the suggested drill points:

IMG_2106

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

IMG_2107

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

IMG_2108

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

And finally, the new question of the day: is this jack going to give me enough clearance to avoid punching a hole in the bumper when the trailer is articulated? Hmmmmmmmmm.....

IMG_2110

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

IMG_2109

• dirty6
• Apr 24, 2021

 

[dirty6]

And if anybody cares to know, the weight difference between the factory tongue jack and this big beefy boy is 39 pounds, so that's the impact I'm adding to the tongue weight.

 

[dustinp]

Since you appear to be able to use two of the factory drilled tongue jack mounting holes for attaching the aft side of the swivel plate closest to the trailer, maybe it would be sufficient to drill just one new hole through the tongue for the forward side of the swivel plate, then use a spacer made from steel pipe cut to the same distance as that between the lower hole on the swivel plate, and the included bracing bar on the opposite side. The lower bolt would then go under the tongue rather than through it, and the pipe spacer would keep the swivel plate, and bracing bar from bending towards each other when the bolt and nut are tightened. I would then think that between the three bolts going through the tongue frame (one forward and two aft), and the forward 4th bolt and spacer under the tongue, you would have plenty of support for any extra downward pressure imparted by an occupied roof rack tent. It appears from your pics that the upper hole of the forward edge of the swivel plate would give you the best edge distance for drilling through the tongue frame, to keep weakening of the frame to a minimum.

 

[dirty6]

I would then think that between the three bolts going through the tongue frame (one forward and two aft

That's certainly an interesting idea! I've received some feedback from Cary and also from a local weld shop, I think we are narrowing in on our course of action. More to follow as we choose a route and start to execute.

 

[rmbrowder]

I have looked at the non-rachet drive model. The ability to move over a gravel campground spot is my desire. Nice to see that two bolt holes are aligned. Perhaps angle iron u-bolts on the forward end (they are triangular). I look forward to your “final” solution.

 

[dirty6]

I have looked at the non-rachet drive model. The ability to move over a gravel campground spot is my desire. Nice to see that two bolt holes are aligned. Perhaps angle iron u-bolts on the forward end (they are triangular). I look forward to your “final” solution.

Well those look clever!

I'm afraid they won't line up with the bolt holes on the plate of the tongue jack, however.

 

[dirty6]

IMG_2278

• dirty6
• May 9, 2021

Update: Success (so far).

After consultation with Camp-Inn (thanks, Cary!) we decided on an escalated approach to the problem. The idea was to try the least invasive solution and see if it works. If not, we could escalate.

Cary suggested that we would most likely be OK to bolt this jack on with only 3 bolts. This was the least invasive idea. The plan was to use the aft side existing bolt holes on the frame, and to add an upper forward hole to handle the third bolt. The advisement was to NOT drill a forward lower hole without reinforcing the frame, due to the minimal clearance that would likely crack the angle iron.

If that didn't work, we could use the included brackets and a wood/steel filler block to attach the forward side of the tongue jack. The forward side has enough room for the brackets, the aft side can't accommodate the bracket because the propane tank mount is in the way.

If that didn't work, we could either reinforce the existing frame with welded steel to allow a lower forward bolt hole or simply weld an entire mounting plate to the frame and bolt the tongue jack to the welded mounting plate. Absent the less desirable idea of just welding the entire jack directly to the frame, this was the most invasive option and we settled on it as a last resort.

Today my friend came down and drilled the appropriate hole. With three bolts through the plate it seems to be holding just fine! More to follow over time to see if that holds up, but initial indications suggest we are good to go.

After we got the jack mounted and firmly (very firmly) bolted on, I "drove" the trailer around the driveway a little bit. Wow, does this thing make a difference! The ratchet system is nice for an extra hump or oomph when needed, but I think most of the time we will use this in "freewheel" mode. Also, the removable ratchet arm makes a HUGE difference in steering. Even if I'm not "pushing" the trailer by the ratchet arm, it gives me a very direct and responsive ability to turn the wheel. The large rubberized wheels gripped the pavement wonderfully. Finally, the clutch wheel allows for a "lock mode" that keeps the wheel from spinning. This definitely is not a proper parking brake, but it is a bit of extra piece of mind when maneuvering the trailer by myself - I can lock the front wheel for that mad dash to place the chocks on the rear wheels.

So far, I'm quite happy. It was a bit of a game to solve the riddles associated with this, and the device itself wasn't cheap. We also still have to evaluate whether the folded jack is going to present a problem when the trailer is articulated and threatening my tow vehicles rear bumper (if so, solvable with a hitch extension). But again - looks to be solid for now.

IMG_2279

• dirty6
• May 9, 2021

IMG_2280

• dirty6
• May 9, 2021

IMG_2281

• dirty6
• May 9, 2021

 

[rmbrowder]

Well, we are a few hours out of sync. I found that if the mounting plate on the ARC jack is removed it is a direct replacement on the existing mounting plate from Campinn. The Campinn jack can be removed by the snap ring, the ARC jack, sans the mounting plate, can be slipped on and the snap ring replaced. The coupler height rises to a max of 19” with a front to back slope of 2”. There may be a difference between the model I used and the model you used. The non-rachet model weighs 25 lbs.

 

[dirty6]

Well, we are a few hours out of sync. I found that if the mounting plate on the ARC jack is removed it is a direct replacement on the existing mounting plate from Campinn. The Campinn jack can be removed by the snap ring, the ARC jack, sans the mounting plate, can be slipped on and the snap ring replaced. The coupler height rises to a max of 19” with a front to back slope of 2”. There may be a difference between the model I used and the model you used. The non-rachet model weighs 25 lbs.

Oh! I certainly didn’t think of swapping out the two mounting plates!

I’ll have to go have a peek at my plate - I wonder if mine would marry up. My ARC model is the ratcheting version, but it’s also one step up in size from what you have (500 vs 350, load rated to 1000 pounds).

Now that you have it on, do you notice any immediate difference in maneuvering/steering?

 

[rmbrowder]

Oh! I certainly didn’t think of swapping out the two mounting plates!

I’ll have to go have a peek at my plate - I wonder if mine would marry up. My ARC model is the ratcheting version, but it’s also one step up in size from what you have (500 vs 350, load rated to 1000 pounds).

Now that you have it on, do you notice any immediate difference in maneuvering/steering?

In the garage the wheel pivots easier. I have one on my equipment trailer that I use for tree farm work. It makes it a lot easier to move on soil. It is a larger model with larger wheels. I had the feeling that the trailer would roll away from me. I think that I’ll tether (lightly) the breakaway cable when on a slope.

 

[rmbrowder]

I originally used angle iron ubolts on the opposite side and just wanted a plate over the old holes. It took me a few minutes to wonder about the size of the pivot hole in the ARK. Your method does look good.

 

[dirty6]

Test drive over to a parking lot to determine the amount of trailer articulation we can get away with before threatening our two vehicle back bumper. It looks like we will have to be a little careful in the most severe/tight backing up scenarios, but otherwise we should be ok. I don't see a need for a hitch extension at this time.

I imagine that in the most extreme scenarios when trying to back into a very tight spot, we can just rotate the jack into the down position to get the final bit of clearance to allow a complete jackknife bend. But again, that seems to be rarely needed.