New Td Battery On Its Way

It appears that our battery (larger AGM option) is gone, it self-discharged down to 7.2v when I had it off the charger for 3 days.

***edit***
Later, I discovered it wasn’t self-discharge, but that there was a wiring short that connected the positive terminal to ground.
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After considering a fairly direct replacement battery, upgrade to lithium, or somewhere in between, I chose the in between option.

It’s a Victron 12V/100Ah AGM Super Cycle Battery (M6) BAT412110081

I earlier shared my experience of determining that an extra “pony” battery in the headboard cabinet would be the primary battery for my CPAP in this thread:
Cpap Power For Boondocking

Along the way I discovered the Victron Super Cycle AGM batts, and purchased a 60AH version. It’s been great. The Super Cycle has a chemistry that allows occasional 100% draw downs with reduced impact on longevity than a standard AGM. Never use more than 50% of a standard AGM’s capacity!

The same reasoning that led me to that for the pony battery led me back to Victron Super Cycle for the TD batt. Consistent 12v and backup 12v power for my CPAP are essential to my health and enjoyment of camping, so, I’m going big on this batt.

To do so, I’m paying almost a 2x cost premium. Note that a lithium is around a 5 or 6x premium, and allows frequent 100% draw downs.

I anticipate a couple of installation issues. First, the new batt is 1/4 to 1/2” taller than the original, requiring repositioning the cleat that holds it in place, or, possibly shaving that cleat if it’s close.

Second, the position of the pos and neg terminals on the batt may be reversed from the original, requiring work on the wiring harness, and dealing with any possible interference of the terminal block.

Should be here in a couple weeks, I’ll update this thread. I know there’s been some interest in this particular battery from other forum members, did anyone actually install one?

 

Is the stock battery charger on the camper compatible with this battery? I know that a lithium battery would require a different charger.

Keep us posted on how well it fits in the battery compartment!

Randy

 

Thanks Randy.

Although the new batt *is* a lead-acid AGM, with its unique chemistry Victron lists higher Bulk & Absorption charging voltages than the Marinco 6a charger puts out. My guess - the stock charger is compatible, but may not be ideal for speed of charging, or possibly longevity. I’m seeking more info on that; the batt is due to arrive next Friday 4/3.

OTOH, I do have a compatible 10a charger, Victron brand, that I bought with the pony battery. With a little ingenuity I’ll have a good short-to-medium term charging solution, while I figure out what’s good for the TD charger.

Will keep this thread updated as I learn more, and especially what it takes to install the battery.

 

Update: The battery arrived without shipping damage on April 3, but turned out to have a manufacturing defect. Nobody likes battery acid outside of their sealed battery!

It’s taken some time to nail down return & replacement. It looks like I’ll be taking the defective batt to hazardous materials recycling, and expect tracking info on its replacement today or tomorrow.

I will update the thread when I receive and install.

 

Bummer.

 

This turned into a lengthy project, with many learning opportunities along the way, but I’m glad to say it is now done.

After the delay in getting the replacement batt shipped, it did arrive, was a good batt, and pretty fresh.

After some considering, I also ordered a new Victron IP67 13a BlueSmart charger.

Install of the new batt & charger was completed today... At 9:45am this morning I had completed the prep and was ready to install, but took a moment to check continuity of the wiring, which led me on a merry chase of corroded breakaway switch wires and a separate short; the + post showed continuity to ground! That will kill a battery!

I finally caught that the + lead from the the original charger had never been disconnected from the + post, and was shorted to ground, so I removed it. Puzzling this out, finding and correcting yet another wiring error, and fixing the breakaway wiring took me to 2pm, when the charger/batt install finally started, and proceeded smoothly.

I expect to be happy with the new battery and charger. I have several cautions to share:

When you order from a dealer, Victron batteries are drop-shipped via motor freight from their warehouse in Maine. It’s important to find a good dealer, who is actually listed on the Victron web site. Lots can happen in transit, especially on the long haul to the west coast. This is not the strongest distribution network, in that you *can’t* see a battery on the shelf and say “that’s a good one”, and, you probably *won’t* be ordering from a local dealer. Any problems with your new box of battery acid are harder to resolve.

The 12v-100ah Super Cycle *did* barely, with a little levering, fit once I’d unfastened the battery hold-down cleat. The dead battery was not an original C&D Dynasty, but the later model that the previous owner had had installed. Possibly C-I refitted the cleat on the previous batt change.

Troubleshooting shorts and corroded wiring is not for the inexperienced. Lots of staring at the wiring diagram, checking various connectors for continuity, and figurin’ “what could cause this?” was needed. Hours of it! It turned out to need 3 separate wiring repairs. Ugh.

Replacing a battery? Not a problem. Replacing a charger? A bit tougher, but doable. Finding that the old batt didn’t die of old age or defect? Big problem, lots of troubleshooting!

I now have a 100ah trailer battery, and a 60ah pony battery in the headboard cabinet, and feel that my CPAP power project is done for now. Both are Victron’s “Super Cycle” chemistry, which should be quite long-lived. Both have dedicated Victron chargers (13a, 10a) which feature charging stage monitoring with an app on my phone via bluetooth. Along the way of this project we moved from a 2012 550 to a same-year 560. The trailer also got another COVID project - a new ARB 2500x2500 awning on Yakima round-bar racks.

Ready to camp!

 

This is a well done video about replacing the charger which I plan to do when I go lithium. Any tips and tricks from your experience?

How To: Replacing The Battery Charger

 

This is hard to answer. The method Jay used does work if:

• You have a new charger of needed water resistance that fits between the tanks.
• You have good wiring skills & tools for stripping & crimping. Heat-shrink crimp splices are essential. Having owned a heat gun for a few years, I’d never go back to using a lighter!
• You have a way to keep the trailer in the air safely while you’re under it. My sense is that a very slim person could work under an Ultra on the ground, I’d want it up on jack stands. Safely - I always think about the consequences of that trailer or car coming down on me. More complicated with the optional trailer hitch.
• You’re OK on your back with overhead work. Awkward! Safety glasses recommended.
• I’m on the fence about dropping the tank. Inspecting the lines you’d splice into seems good.

My situation was different in that CI had installed a replacement charger in the right-hand bin. I don’t know where they position the charger in new trailers, perhaps the bin. I don’t think they’re going between the tanks any more.

My takeaway is that hidden wire routes are difficult to deal with and hard to troubleshoot. For example, if you wanted to run a new AC supply line for your charger you’d pick up power for it from the load side of the GFI socket in the upper right cabinet. That would be hard to get to, first for routing the wires, and then for punching through the countertop, because there is no room in the existing pass-through, and it’s sealed with a huge glob of silicone caulk.

My comments and concerns are based on owning two different 2012 CI’s. I understand that they’ve continued to work on the electrical design and have switched chargers & batteries over the years.

 

Thanks, I think I can meet all those bullet points. Fairly confident this one will work as an under trailer replacement. Going to check with Victron first.

Blue Smart IP65 Charger (120V and 230V) - Victron Energy

 

I wish you luck and some fun learning experiences! My patience for these unexpectedly extended projects has grown during the stay-home time, and this was a good and rewarding project.

Here’s the later model of the charger, at 13a, and IP67 water resistance. It’s what I put in the bin for my new 100ah batt.
Victron BlueSmart IP67 Charger 12VDC - 13AMP

12v Technology was a good supplier for my one transaction with them - quick ship, good price, free shipping.

I have the IP65 charger you linked above for my 60ah pony batt. With dual batts and dual chargers I do believe I have the power! I can run the trailer off either, can run the CPAP off either, have a backup battery to bring into the house in case of power failure, and it may some day power an astrophotography rig in some dark skies camping.

 

For those of us who have an AGM battery, I found a chart that gives the approximate charge by voltage present.
I made a copy and keep it with my TD.

 

Thanks for sharing the link to the new model!

 

Awesome Randy - I hope your install is smooth.

With the Victron BlueSmart chargers it is very worthwhile downloading the app. Your phone can display the charging stage...

 

Hey Seth, when you have a minute, how about a one year update on how the 100 Ah Victron battery is treating you.

Thanks.

 

Sure, it’s a pretty short story as our nights out were limited last season. Yes, we are warm-temp campers, June-Sept is about it. Sadly, our last Sept. trip was cancelled due to forest fires.

So, the big one last year was 5 nights. Plenty of power (100ah AGM in the TD, 60ah AGM as a dedicated pony batt in the headboard).

Trouble-free, hassle-free, the TD stores in the garage and is always powered, charges quick with the Victron 13a charger, I think we’re good for several more years, maybe 10 if we continue to treat it right.

On the pony battery, it did indeed come inside this winter for CPAP power. We had our first serious outages in a few years, it is a great solution!

For my hyper-sensitivity to maintaining backed-up electrical service always these Victron AGM “Super-Cycle” batteries have been great! And, worth the 1.5x to 2x price premium.

As detailed above, it’s no picnic to self-install a new charger, but it can be done by the resourceful. I didn’t expect to need to troubleshoot & repair the TD’s electrical system, but it did have two serious problems, either/both of which likely killed the previous battery and would have killed the new Victron if undiscovered and unaddressed.

To sum up, a great project with great results, I’d do it again!

 

Thanks for the update Seth. I'm glad to hear you got the larger battery to fit with no apparent problems. Don't know what you paid, but the current price is not much more than the top quality 78 Ah AGM batteries.

 

Our battery died and I am looking for a replacement. It looks like the Victron BAT412110081 is obsolete, the only Victron batteries that come close to fitting are only 66 Ah. I am bummed as this seems like an excellent technology. Does anyone have a source for the BAT412110081; every place I have looked says "out of stock".

Another possibility I am considering is the Odyssey ODXAGM24M. It it 76 Ah rated and is happy to be discharged to 20% I have Odyssey batteries in other applications and am quite happy with them.

I feel this is an ongoing discussion as batteries will always be needed and suppliers/models come and go.

 

When I purchased every “dealer” I found was having product drop-shipped from Victron’s Maine warehouse.

I also ended up waiting on one of the batteries to hit the U.S. from overseas; I forget if it was the big one or the pony. Apparently a common occurrence that they go out of stock in the U.S. I remember the same experience with ARB products; there’s times when you can’t get product for love or money, then the floodgates open for a few months.

Having said that, I’ve not been following any changes in Victron’s product lineup.

One thing I did notice a couple years ago: It wasn’t just Victron updating their AGM chemistry. C&D Dynasty UPS batts were previously stock with new CIs, but they went elsewhere in later years because of availability (?). Anyways, when I was shopping batts I was considering C&D because some of their spec sheets seemed to list similar deep discharge testing similar to Victron SuperCycle.

Worth looking into? Likely a 76-ish AH is what would fit. Read spec sheets carefully, I think I’m remembering this right, but maybe not, or maybe specs have changed again.

Peter Kennedy Yacht Systems is a great source of Victron info - they are how I originally heard about Victron, and if you call on the phone you talk to a real person!
PKYS INC Marine Electrical Systems Experts

 

Well, I mis-spoke the BAT412110081 is not discontinued, just out of stock everywhere I look and not easy to find on their website; you gave me the clue to look for SuperCycle and I found it. I'll keep trying to find stock, but may opt for the Odyssey if I can't get one soon.