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Battery Lithium Battery and Long Term Storage

P

PoodMood

Newbie
Hi,

I am planning to purchase a 550 in then next year or two. I am planning to store it locally, not in my garage. That means it won't be plugged in for long stretches. With a lead acid battery, I would plan on removing it and bringing it home to place on a battery tender. Do you need to do this with the lithium ion battery upgrade? Can it sit for 6 months and not lose its charge enough to cause damage?

Thanks!
 
As cary said make sure all loads are off. I added a GPS tracker and its hidden well enough that its a pita to unplug . I've found that after about 4 weeks the battery in down about half. Lucky for me I have a garage I keep it in. But for some reason the ac/ battery charger doesn't kick in once it goes through a charging cycle.so I have to remember to unplug and replug every so often
 
+1 here from another sogen buyer and same Precision lion bat-tree that CI first used.(btw my old #310 was two generations older than new, so while CI did retro fit the solar panel and CTEK when I got it, the new Lion wasnt yet in the works.

So, My wiring is sort of a mix of old (no battery disconnect, which came sometime after 2011 iirc) and new from the upfitted solar roof plus CTEK...

And I'm a long drive (2000+ mi) to the Nest, so I knew going in that I'd need to learn dome DIY on basics (bearings etc)

And how electrical stuff works...for MOAR POWAH!

And so on bat-trees I've experimented a bit on my own:
Upgrading from the OEM WallyWorld lead acid flooded cell
to AGM, twice...;)
and then driving to an RV wholesaler that stocked the Precision Lion.
I wanted to know how to install any of the options, including finding a replacement just about anyplace that sells car batteries...
Since supply lines on Group24 lions are less well supported in say, West Armpit, NM and I need a new one...I can find a NAPA or O'Reillys within a reasonable drive to get an AGM...or a WallyWorld just about anywhere in the SEUS for a totes reliable flooded acid lead acid trolling motor...
(One is none, two is one, amiright?)

A couple wrinkles and lessons learned-
TLDR
my advice as always is call Cary for the latest wisdom...and tips on whats working...

One BIG deal to me, and the reason I waited until the inverter engineers at The Nest had carefully checked out the then best solution lion prior to offering the option...

Was the self-heating option- the builtin BMS senses temperature and at some point will use battery power to heat it, so you dont set it on fire by mistake charging while frozen.

Thats a big deal to me camping in high desert in shoulder seasons, mountains in late summer...

So back to storing in a lot...I have and the OEM cover is not cheap for a reason- its bullet proof...but nothing holds up to sun after 3-4 seasons so be thinking ahead...

Tip: if you happen to be parking it where it goes sub freezing at times, there may be some current draw and capacity stored will drop until recharged...

Next crazy idea just for the outdoor storage convo...

I keep noodling on the idea of a clear plastic panel sewn into the excellent OEM cover...to allow some charging while parked in an RV lot in storage...like the ones you see on sime competitive sailing boats...a clear panel to see to the lee, out past the sheeted in sail.

Now, if the cover also had an overlapping vent sewn in, with say a little room to slide a pool noodle under the top, to prop it over a slightly cracked fan, set to run when interior temp goes too high...you not only exercise the panel and battery every so often, and running the fan every so often will help keep condensate from collecting in the cabin...which can happen in cold season if there is any ambient moisture in the air...

That musty smell is a sign, if you need it.
@Sweeney can say how often poorly made or maintained big rig roofs rot and cook...

We DON't have that problem in the CampInn.
But occasionally condensate may collect in cabin...in use, or storage, in past.

I FINALLY tracked down "the ghost draw" that keeled two lead acid bat-trees and drained my Precision, twice...

With the help of a victron shunt for battery State of Charge and volts and current charts in the Victron BT app...plus Craig,Cary, and @Sweeney help in diagnosis...

The culprit (I should have checked first, in hindsight...) was a cheap digital thermostat installed by a previous owner...that had rusted internally, shorting out, allowing the furnace to self cycle on and off, per its manual...which of course, since the gas valve was closed...

Meant it drained the battery(s) when parked in storage...

How about that?
Moral of the story...
RTFM and call Cary if you are confuseled.

PS: dont trust the green kid at the Victron certified RV repair shop.

Takes someone like a @Sweeney or Craig to intuit and diagnose the electrical components and various symptoms...

Its worth it to get your own voltmeter to understand whats happening where..."the foot bone connects to the ankle bone...;)
 
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@Cary Winch @David Rossiter @anyone using Precision lion over a year or two:
How much juice does the self-heating function draw from a bat-tree in storage, under various assumptions or
Actual experience in below freezing conditions?

I've been charting how much the fan uses and how much the rooftop panel recharges it, in warm weather in storage uncovered (since we rarely get rain in sunny socal...) and its been very reliable now I got the ghost draw sorted out...View attachment IMG_1879.pngView attachment IMG_1878.png

(Btw the draw you see is the rooftop fan set roughly to come on as cabin temp rises to 80 degrees, and run until it cools below...)
 
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The Postman said:
Thanks @Cary Winch that makes it simple
Click to expand...
What is the latest Battree manufacturer and model used on new builds, if when time comes to source another Lion you guys have specced out?

I realize I can experiment on my own, and watching others experience in own upgrades (thank you all for sharing btw!)

But I kinda like to follow your lead so I'm not on the bleeding (wallet) edge...;)
 
The Postman said:
+1 here from another sogen buyer and same Precision lion bat-tree that CI first used.(btw my old #310 was two generations older than new, so while CI did retro fit the solar panel and CTEK when I got it, the new Lion wasnt yet in the works.

So, My wiring is sort of a mix of old (no battery disconnect, which came sometime after 2011 iirc) and new from the upfitted solar roof plus CTEK...

And I'm a long drive (2000+ mi) to the Nest, so I knew going in that I'd need to learn dome DIY on basics (bearings etc)

And how electrical stuff works...for MOAR POWAH!

And so on bat-trees I've experimented a bit on my own:
Upgrading from the OEM WallyWorld lead acid flooded cell
to AGM, twice...;)
and then driving to an RV wholesaler that stocked the Precision Lion.
I wanted to know how to install any of the options, including finding a replacement just about anyplace that sells car batteries...
Since supply lines on Group24 lions are less well supported in say, West Armpit, NM and I need a new one...I can find a NAPA or O'Reillys within a reasonable drive to get an AGM...or a WallyWorld just about anywhere in the SEUS for a totes reliable flooded acid lead acid trolling motor...
(One is none, two is one, amiright?)

A couple wrinkles and lessons learned-
TLDR
my advice as always is call Cary for the latest wisdom...and tips on whats working...

One BIG deal to me, and the reason I waited until the inverter engineers at The Nest had carefully checked out the then best solution lion prior to offering the option...

Was the self-heating option- the builtin BMS senses temperature and at some point will use battery power to heat it, so you dont set it on fire by mistake charging while frozen.

Thats a big deal to me camping in high desert in shoulder seasons, mountains in late summer...

So back to storing in a lot...I have and the OEM cover is not cheap for a reason- its bullet proof...but nothing holds up to sun after 3-4 seasons so be thinking ahead...

Tip: if you happen to be parking it where it goes sub freezing at times, there may be some current draw and capacity stored will drop until recharged...

Next crazy idea just for the outdoor storage convo...

I keep noodling on the idea of a clear plastic panel sewn into the excellent OEM cover...to allow some charging while parked in an RV lot in storage...like the ones you see on sime competitive sailing boats...a clear panel to see to the lee, out past the sheeted in sail.

Now, if the cover also had an overlapping vent sewn in, with say a little room to slide a pool noodle under the top, to prop it over a slightly cracked fan, set to run when interior temp goes too high...you not only exercise the panel and battery every so often, and running the fan every so often will help keep condensate from collecting in the cabin...which can happen in cold season if there is any ambient moisture in the air...

That musty smell is a sign, if you need it.
@Sweeney can say how often poorly made or maintained big rig roofs rot and cook...

We DON't have that problem in the CampInn.
But occasionally condensate may collect in cabin...in use, or storage, in past.

I FINALLY tracked down "the ghost draw" that keeled two lead acid bat-trees and drained my Precision, twice...

With the help of a victron shunt for battery State of Charge and volts and current charts in the Victron BT app...plus Craig,Cary, and @Sweeney help in diagnosis...

The culprit (I should have checked first, in hindsight...) was a cheap digital thermostat installed by a previous owner...that had rusted internally, shorting out, allowing the furnace to self cycle on and off, per its manual...which of course, since the gas valve was closed...

Meant it drained the battery(s) when parked in storage...

How about that?
Moral of the story...
RTFM and call Cary if you are confuseled.

PS: dont trust the green kid at the Victron certified RV repair shop.

Takes someone like a @Sweeney or Craig to intuit and diagnose the electrical components and various symptoms...

Its worth it to get your own voltmeter to understand whats happening where..."the foot bone connects to the ankle bone...;)
Click to expand...

Actually mold can be a problem --- mold is a problem in every camper. Mold need moisture, still air, and time. Under a mattress where a camper wasn't used for a long time -- or possilby in a galley area left closed without being dried out properly. Our risks are certailnly smaller, but there is still some possability of it happening.

Big rig? bad news. MDF cabinets, paper vanier, and plumbing built using hand crimpers, and plastic fitings of the wrong specification....its a hot mess. Then, you calculate in people who never maintain their roof -- I worked on one this summer where the roof was so soft my knee just about went through the luan...had a 3x5 'rot' right by the 14x14 AC opening. I told the customer that ie needed immeidate attention just to assess -- the roof had to be peeled back, and with a 99% likelihood mold had already begun. He said "next year"

I said fine....noted water damaage an "Customer declined further investigation" on the invoice....not much more I can do.
 
Cary Winch said:
We use the Epoch 105ah Essential series battery. It is really great, has bluetooth and a good app for monitoring.

Cary
Click to expand...
Sweet!
Specs are impressive, plus no external shunt required!
Saved for reference ....

www.epochbatteries.com

12V 105Ah Heated & Bluetooth LiFePO4 Battery | Epoch

Upgrade to the Epoch Essentials 12V 105Ah LiFePO4 battery. A Group 24 deep cycle replacement featuring internal heating, Bluetooth & an 11-yr limited warranty.
www.epochbatteries.com www.epochbatteries.com

What AC powered batree charger are you pairing that with now on new builds? Where located?

NOCO 10 was the latest "off the shelf" IIRC last we spoke compatible for DIYs who are too far from the nest, needing a replacement/upgrade.

(I tried the NOCO5 myself, installing inside the galley compartment (instead of underneath the chassis as my support bars for rear bumper/hitch are in the way...)

But mostly as I prefer bending over galley to see little blinky lights than wiggle my (ahem) not so svelte bod under the camper to check blinky lights are good....where the old Marinco was first located...

and BTW later upgraded to the Victron7/17 AC that David Rossiter suggested for faster recharge on the road by plugin someplace or running my little blue yamaha gas generator...

The NOCO5 sits on shelf charging various items as needed- son's motorcycle etc.
And a backup if I fry the Victron...

Just curious if and when time comes on that for future, too.
 
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My factory-installed charger is the NOCO 10, installed in the right-most galley on the back wall.

image.png
 
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