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Wiring question
- Thread starter jfocallag
- Start date
I think everybody has to get their tow vehicle rewired at the factory - it's tradition. 
... Actually, our problem was that the controller went bad in the month between installation and arrival. It was only a $30 part and Craig's time (volunteered) so we didn't ever get around to going back to our installer.
Perhaps you can tell your installer not to use cheap parts.
... Actually, our problem was that the controller went bad in the month between installation and arrival. It was only a $30 part and Craig's time (volunteered) so we didn't ever get around to going back to our installer.Perhaps you can tell your installer not to use cheap parts.
Lh303
Novice
Not to brag, but when we picked up ours, Cary said that we were one out of ten that did not have to be rewired. That is what 6 years of electrical engineering education will get you. Seriously though, have the installer function test it. If you are doing it yourself you can do this with a cheap Radio Shack voltmeter. Many auto dealers offer kits that utilize harnesses that tie directly into the 7 pin trailer plug. The most important aspect of wiring the trailer harness is to have a good ground, and tie the 12 volt trailer battery charging circuit directly to the auto battery (fused), not to the controller, since it is not designed to carry the higher current of the charging circuit. The controller is designed primarily for the lights. My controller was tied to the auto's wiring harness controling the lights which kept is simple from a wiring aspect. If you are using electrical brakes on the TD or use a charging circuit to keep the battery charged it becomes a bit more complicated in the sense that you need to size your wiring in order to carry the additional electrical load.
Cary Winch
Camp-Inn Staff
Joan and everyone,
The number one thing that we see done wrong is not installing a ground wire for the charge line and brake line. Seems sometimes the installer forget that an electrical circuit takes two wires. They hook up the charge line and forget to run a ground also. If the car is of foreign manufacturer it is wired as a 5 wire tail light system. US standard is 4 wire. A quick way to tell is whether the car has amber turn signal in back, that is 5 wire. All red should be 4 wire. And it is not always determined by where the care manufacturer is from, my wife's Caddy is 5 wire (no idea how that can be) and the other day we had a Japanese brand SUV here with 4 wire system on (probably built in the US?). This requires a tail light converter. If the installer does not wire a proper ground for the charger line and brake line on a car with a converter it tries to carry the entire charge and braking current through the little bitty tail light ground wire going into the converter. This will smoke it nicely, heck I even heard one squeal from over current once. So, there must be a ground wire at least the same gage as the charge line or bigger run to the frame in back besides the tail light ground probably already existing. On a US standard wiring system if the ground wire is not properly done is it not so bad, it just will take forever to charge the camper's battery. If the trailer has brakes however it will not work even then because you will not get enough return current from the brakes.
Speaking of charge lines. Hooking this up not at all is a common one we see. Installers do not like to do this typically and will just "forget" to do it. If the trailer has brakes and you are having a brake controller installed in the car they are required by law to install the charge line. They still "forget" to do it then too. If there is no brake controller they think that is no reason for you to have it so don't install it unless your are insistent.
If you are getting the back up light option you must insist on the installer wiring that in. This is not normal during trailer wiring and is considered a "auxiliary" connection. So, they won't do it unless you make them understand you want it. It is rare to see working backup lights, very rare.
We sometimes see miswires caused by the color coding of a 4 prong connector and a 7 prong connector being similar but different. When hooking up a 7 prong to a vehicle that already has a 4 prong or when installing a tail light converter (they are wired to 4 prong wiring colors) it is easy to get this stuff messed up. Then the lights do crazy things. Test thoroughly.
Corrosion on an older system causes issues too. We seen two of them in the last month like this. Not really old either, year old maybe. The connectors were so corroded in the connector they just didn't work, one had two pins corroded clean off. One was from WI and the other from MN. We use a stupid amount of road salt up in these states during the winter so this is not an uncommon issue on trailer connectors. What I am suggesting here is if you have a vehicle that is already wired and even has towed trailers before don't assume it works when coming to pick up. Test and clean it thoroughly before hitting the road.
Tail light converters. This is an issue we see often, not near as much as the ground wire one but enough to be serious. Several issues we see. One is the vehicles that need them and don't have one wired in. The installer needs to understand the difference between a 5 wire and a 4 wire system before doing the job. Another is converters that are bad. The do go bad over time so if you have an older one test it thoroughly. New ones also go bad very often like Evan found out. This wasn't the case for Evan but we see alot of newer Toyotas with bad converters. So, test it thoroughly even if it is a newer install, even a factory install like with the Toyotas.
Tail light converters come in two flavors. Powered and unpowered. The unpowered just hook to the tail lights of the cars and combine the turn and brake light functions. The powered ones also use a 12v power line to run the converter. They have their own tail light flasher circuits in them. Nice setups, this is what I run in my own cars when they need them. We had one the other day though where the installer connected the power line to the taillight wire. So, the converter required the car's tail lights to be one for the trailer's lights to work. Dangerous situation that could easily cause the trailer to be driven with no brake or turn signals that was caused by the installers lack of ambition to wire the power line correctly. So, test the connector thoroughly with the headlights on and off. This is a good ground test too.
If you don't have a way to test the connector yourself I suggest making the shop show you it works on all functions. Have them show you the large ground wire underneath. Have them show you the charge line connection under the hood. Knowing what I know about these issues I don't think I would let it leave their shop without this show and tell. Don't just let them toss you the keys and tell you "your car is all done, here is the bill". This is my grumpy guy statement for the day,
So, electrical is the biggest issue of course. But, we do see plenty of hitches that need work too. Probably close to half of the tow vehicles that come to pick up need some hitch work when they get here. Easy stuff normally like getting the correct "drop" or having the ball installed on it so no big deal to sort out when here. Still though this is a good time to bring it up. Use the info on our FAQ page to measure up and determine your hitch height and ball size (2") and have it all ready to roll before coming to pick up your trailer. Orientation takes 4-6 hours normally and adding in hitch redoes and electrical rewires makes for a long day.
Cary
The number one thing that we see done wrong is not installing a ground wire for the charge line and brake line. Seems sometimes the installer forget that an electrical circuit takes two wires. They hook up the charge line and forget to run a ground also. If the car is of foreign manufacturer it is wired as a 5 wire tail light system. US standard is 4 wire. A quick way to tell is whether the car has amber turn signal in back, that is 5 wire. All red should be 4 wire. And it is not always determined by where the care manufacturer is from, my wife's Caddy is 5 wire (no idea how that can be) and the other day we had a Japanese brand SUV here with 4 wire system on (probably built in the US?). This requires a tail light converter. If the installer does not wire a proper ground for the charger line and brake line on a car with a converter it tries to carry the entire charge and braking current through the little bitty tail light ground wire going into the converter. This will smoke it nicely, heck I even heard one squeal from over current once. So, there must be a ground wire at least the same gage as the charge line or bigger run to the frame in back besides the tail light ground probably already existing. On a US standard wiring system if the ground wire is not properly done is it not so bad, it just will take forever to charge the camper's battery. If the trailer has brakes however it will not work even then because you will not get enough return current from the brakes.
Speaking of charge lines. Hooking this up not at all is a common one we see. Installers do not like to do this typically and will just "forget" to do it. If the trailer has brakes and you are having a brake controller installed in the car they are required by law to install the charge line. They still "forget" to do it then too. If there is no brake controller they think that is no reason for you to have it so don't install it unless your are insistent.
If you are getting the back up light option you must insist on the installer wiring that in. This is not normal during trailer wiring and is considered a "auxiliary" connection. So, they won't do it unless you make them understand you want it. It is rare to see working backup lights, very rare.
We sometimes see miswires caused by the color coding of a 4 prong connector and a 7 prong connector being similar but different. When hooking up a 7 prong to a vehicle that already has a 4 prong or when installing a tail light converter (they are wired to 4 prong wiring colors) it is easy to get this stuff messed up. Then the lights do crazy things. Test thoroughly.
Corrosion on an older system causes issues too. We seen two of them in the last month like this. Not really old either, year old maybe. The connectors were so corroded in the connector they just didn't work, one had two pins corroded clean off. One was from WI and the other from MN. We use a stupid amount of road salt up in these states during the winter so this is not an uncommon issue on trailer connectors. What I am suggesting here is if you have a vehicle that is already wired and even has towed trailers before don't assume it works when coming to pick up. Test and clean it thoroughly before hitting the road.
Tail light converters. This is an issue we see often, not near as much as the ground wire one but enough to be serious. Several issues we see. One is the vehicles that need them and don't have one wired in. The installer needs to understand the difference between a 5 wire and a 4 wire system before doing the job. Another is converters that are bad. The do go bad over time so if you have an older one test it thoroughly. New ones also go bad very often like Evan found out. This wasn't the case for Evan but we see alot of newer Toyotas with bad converters. So, test it thoroughly even if it is a newer install, even a factory install like with the Toyotas.
Tail light converters come in two flavors. Powered and unpowered. The unpowered just hook to the tail lights of the cars and combine the turn and brake light functions. The powered ones also use a 12v power line to run the converter. They have their own tail light flasher circuits in them. Nice setups, this is what I run in my own cars when they need them. We had one the other day though where the installer connected the power line to the taillight wire. So, the converter required the car's tail lights to be one for the trailer's lights to work. Dangerous situation that could easily cause the trailer to be driven with no brake or turn signals that was caused by the installers lack of ambition to wire the power line correctly. So, test the connector thoroughly with the headlights on and off. This is a good ground test too.
If you don't have a way to test the connector yourself I suggest making the shop show you it works on all functions. Have them show you the large ground wire underneath. Have them show you the charge line connection under the hood. Knowing what I know about these issues I don't think I would let it leave their shop without this show and tell. Don't just let them toss you the keys and tell you "your car is all done, here is the bill". This is my grumpy guy statement for the day,
So, electrical is the biggest issue of course. But, we do see plenty of hitches that need work too. Probably close to half of the tow vehicles that come to pick up need some hitch work when they get here. Easy stuff normally like getting the correct "drop" or having the ball installed on it so no big deal to sort out when here. Still though this is a good time to bring it up. Use the info on our FAQ page to measure up and determine your hitch height and ball size (2") and have it all ready to roll before coming to pick up your trailer. Orientation takes 4-6 hours normally and adding in hitch redoes and electrical rewires makes for a long day.
Cary
Cary,
Thank you! I just checked and I have amber turn signals so I think it has a 5 wire. I am planning on bringing the wiring diagram with me. I mentioned to the person at the trailer shop that you had people whose wiring was incorrect.
Before I go, I will make a check list to go over with him and do as you suggested and have him show me the wiring.
Thanks again.
Thank you! I just checked and I have amber turn signals so I think it has a 5 wire. I am planning on bringing the wiring diagram with me. I mentioned to the person at the trailer shop that you had people whose wiring was incorrect.
Before I go, I will make a check list to go over with him and do as you suggested and have him show me the wiring.
Thanks again.
Joan
I took the FAQ wiring diagram with me and Cary still had to resolve problems and I have to take the car back to the shop to get some others rectified.
This is just a pain in the #### job that RV dealers provide to sell there RVs Cary's advice to get them to show it working is good advice as I could only test the rear lights brake lights and turn signals on my utility trailer using a four pin converter. The charge wire and Brake controller were unable to be tested until the TV was hitched up to a seven pin connector.
Cary provides a fantastic service but he should not have to and would be within his rights to charge for his time. Hats off to you Cary.
Take a copy of Cary's post with you it explains all the potential pitfalls.
I took the FAQ wiring diagram with me and Cary still had to resolve problems and I have to take the car back to the shop to get some others rectified.
This is just a pain in the #### job that RV dealers provide to sell there RVs Cary's advice to get them to show it working is good advice as I could only test the rear lights brake lights and turn signals on my utility trailer using a four pin converter. The charge wire and Brake controller were unable to be tested until the TV was hitched up to a seven pin connector.
Cary provides a fantastic service but he should not have to and would be within his rights to charge for his time. Hats off to you Cary.
Take a copy of Cary's post with you it explains all the potential pitfalls.
"...If you are getting the back up light option you must insist on the installer wiring that in. This is not normal during trailer wiring and is considered a "auxiliary" connection. So, they won't do it unless you make them understand you want it. It is rare to see working backup lights, very rare...."
Yah, my backup lights never did work.." but did ask them to make sure they did...
Is there a quick fix? test (heheh... sorry, I really do know better, middle part of 7 -plug if I remember quickly, The dealer did say there was power coming out plug, but never investigated beyond that...
thoughts???
Yah, my backup lights never did work.." but did ask them to make sure they did...
Is there a quick fix? test (heheh... sorry, I really do know better, middle part of 7 -plug if I remember quickly, The dealer did say there was power coming out plug, but never investigated beyond that...
thoughts???