Registering our teardrop 550 at the DMV

Cary, you were SO RIGHT about what to expect when registering the teardrop camper!!!
:crazy: $$$$$
Let's just say that the 2nd DMV (smaller and more rural location) was a piece of cake.
A very nice lady by the name of Beth, took one look at the paperwork you gave us and said, "Oh, this is easy." We were in and out of there in no time. :grin:

Thank you, thank you, thank you....good advice!!!!

Deb

 

That is so cool that as a teacher you can appreciate the reason for having to do such an intensive registration tutorial. Nothing like witnessing it first hand! I am glad it worked out, I wish it would have been easier though. Some time you will have to tell me which of the 6 items on my list of silly DMV things you ran into on this one.

Cary

 

We didn't even get into all of the 6 issues really. It mostly was over the sales and use tax. The young lady cut me off...when I tried to explain to her, she looked up at the ceiling (her version of eye rolling) without looking at any of the paperwork.

You are right again about being a teacher...I just looked up Virginia's law on Motor Vehicle Sales and Use Tax; Exemptions from the SUT Tax:

"If you are titling your vehicle in Virginia for the first time and you hold a valid assignable title or registration issued in your name by another state or branch of the United States Armed Forces, you will not have to pay the Motor Vehicle Sales and Use Tax. However, if you purchased the vehicle within the preceding 12 months, you must provide proof that the sales and use tax was paid elsewhere in order to be exempt in Virginia."

Pretty straight forward I'd say.

Don't know if it's the teacher in me or my Type A personality (I do work hard at trying to keep that under control.) but I want to go back to that first DMV and speak with that young woman... showing her the copy I printed off the virginia.gov website with that portion highlighted. And yes, I'd stand in line again too.

Thanks again, Cary, for the advice of just leaving and finding another DMV. You saved me a lot of time and grief.

Moral of the story: LISTEN to Cary & Craig; they know what they're talking about.

Deb

 

We have been wondering how that process works. I'm sure it is similar from state to state. Thanks for the advice.
We will be seeing Cary in about three weeks.
Getting a little anxious about making sure we bring everything we will need for the trip back with the TD.

 

My advice (and I think Evan mentioned it somewhere) is go light. If you plan to slowly camp your way back to FL, then maybe pack more. We ended up driving straight through as we needed to swing by northern VA to pick up a freezer and grill set for our son, who was moving into a smaller apt. Our gear ended up in the cabin of the 550, and the freezer and grill, etc., ended up in the Sienna. Boy, we've hauled a lot of stuff in that car over the years! Anyway, I thought I'd packed light, but could have still left some things at home.
Little Patriot did great though. She handled the road with flying colors!

Well, I'm on a mission now with this vehicle registration thing...just got off the phone with the secretary of the Commissioner of Motor Vehicle Regisration. She's bringing it up in tomorrow's meeting. There's more to tell, so I'll post that anew.

 

Probably against everyone's better judgement, I did go back to the 1st DMV and try to show them the Virginia Statute and policy. Let's just say it was surreal. Amazingly, the lady said the other DMV "did it wrong." She would'nt even listen to me or look at the print-out with the state statute from dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles...insisting that it wasn't the correct website...and on and on it went. She pushed the paper back across the counter insisting she was right. Sadly, the supervisor would not look at the paper either. He was respectful, but not willing to correct her.
So...I went home and tried to find the DMV headquarters in Richmond. The only phone number you find is a generic number that comes up for any DMV in Virginia.

I called the FTC in in DC; spoke to a nice guy (Hector) who graciously listened to my saga.
Because we're dealing with interstate commerce and sales tax, I thought it'd be appropriate to call them. He said it was. I explained that this issue is happening in other states as well. I now have a reference number from the FTC, and it's being investigated.
I'm optimistic. I had to call on them once before over an issue with a rebate, and they resolved it in a timely manner.
Hector then suggested I call the U.S. Govt. Federal Info. Center. They too, listened to my story and gave me several direct numbers to call.
I then called the Office of the VA Attorney General and spoke with State Consumer Protection. "Doris" was very nice and documented the concern. She said they would be calling me back.
The direct line to the VA Dept. of Taxation was busy, and it was almost closing time; I will call back tomorrow.
The most difficult number to get was the number for the Commissioner of the DMV. The website is useless. So I called 411 for the number. Super nice person on that end as well..
Finally got through to the office of Richard Holcomb, Commissioner of DMV. He's out 2 weeks on vacation, but I spoke to Emily, who was very nice and spoke with concern about what happened.
My next call is to my delegate, and state senators in the General Assembly. And yep, I've personally met and spoken with them before. I also have a direct number to the governor's office, thanks to Emily. She suggested I call his office too. (It's pretty serious stuff when you start messing up with the peoples' money and taxes. One might construe it as fraud.)

Seems like to me, people working on behalf of local, and state govts. ought to know how to do their jobs. The fact that this has happened to people in the past, and it's still happening is unacceptable...

Have to practice what I preach to my 8th Grade Civics students:
Don't give up; know your rights; be informed; be involved; give back; affect change for the better. Oh, and don't always take 'No' for an answer. Besides, I'd like to have a happy ending to share with my students.

Guess everyone on the forum thinks I'm crazy. That's okay. Only on certain things, like my CI 550!

Deb

 

One of the benefits of living in a state without sales tax. Just had to drive over to Minnesota for the exchange to avoid Wisconsin sales tax. No issues registering the trailer.

Good for you though. I think we often let things like this drop with the 'you can't fight City Hall' mentality. Hopefully, they will have some remedial training or look up tools available for the DMV folks.

 

Deb,

I probably would not recommend picking a fight with the DMV, it is like arguing with the IRS, kind of unwinnable. One thing we have learned is that once someone in a DMV has made a decision they will back it up no matter how wrong it is. That is probably why the lack of concern from the supervisor. This is also part of the reason we teach to pack up your paperwork and head off to another DMV when faced with such silliness.

I don't know what the website showed for the sales tax credit statute that you referenced but here is the full statute if you need it:

58.1-2403. Exemptions.
No tax shall be imposed as provided in § 58.1-2402 if the vehicle is:
10. Being registered for the first time in this Commonwealth and the applicant holds a valid, assignable title or registration issued to him by another state or a branch of the United States Armed Forces and (i) has owned the vehicle for longer than 12 months or (ii) has owned the vehicle for less than 12 months and provides evidence of a sales tax paid to another state. However, when a vehicle has been purchased by the applicant within the last 12 months and the applicant is unable to provide evidence of a sales tax paid to another state, the applicant shall pay the Virginia sales tax based on the fair market value of the vehicle at the time of registration in Virginia;



Cary

 

Hooo..hooo...Deb. One of the first things Dad taught my sibs and me was "Pick Your Fights" and you chose a doosy. Yet, in all the requirements he listed for a fight, a clear chance of winning was not one of them. If you feel this strongly (and obviously you do), carry on the battle.

Abuse from bureaucratic low-grades and the total indifference of their supervisors is a government wide scandal that no official gives two hoots in Hades about. Any complaints or chance of redress is buried in a maze of computerized phone systems so complicated Theseus and his Minotaur would be hopelessly lost.

We've been on the receiving end of this charming behavior many times and nothing seem to work to change the system. If you have any inside roads, go for it and best of luck.

Sue

 

Thanks, Cary, for the additional info. And yes, you right about them not admitting they're wrong, or they made a mistake. When I said the experience was surreal...I was being nice.

Sue, my beef is that this extremely rude DMV gal wouldn't even look at my paperwork as she was convinced that I had to pay the tax again, then request a refund from the seller. That makes no sense. If the state law (in this case, Wisconsin) requires the seller (Camp-Inn) to collect the sales tax on behalf of the state, then recourse is with the state, not the seller. In my case, the law says I am exempt if I have proof, which I did. AGAIN, THANK YOU, CARY!!!!!

Regardless, the powers that be are going to hear about it. Still have a few calls to make.
Will also contact the Daily Press and the Richmond Times and submit a letter to the editors of those papers. The Williamsburg Gazette will also be interested. We have WAVY TV 10 On Your Side that takes on these very issues. And they do a good job following up on it.

As Joan said, if all that comes of this is improved DMV training, I'll be fine with that.
Ideally, I'd like to see that va.gov. info. posted at every DMV in Virginia. That's where my state legislators and governor play a role. The Commissioner of the DMV can make it happen if he chooses.

It's been my experience that the person at the top does not like to have a concerned citizen who votes and pays taxes sitting directly in front of them in their office. They know if you've taken the time and trouble to come see them in person ( as well as figured out how to cut through the red tape in tracking them down) that you're expecting resolution.

Some day I'll tell you a real cute story about the Office of the U.S. Post Master General...
it was before cell phones with cameras.

Deb

 

Deb,

I don't know if it would make you feel better but I just had to deal with this exact same scenario yesterday with a customer in AL registering their trailer. I even talked to the lady at the DMV to assist. What she really wanted to know was who in WI was going to send a check to AL for the AL sales tax collected. Arghhhh. So, after giving her the AL statute that clearly stated our customer was not going to have to pay the sales tax already paid (much more clear and well spelled out statute than even your VA one) she still gave our customer grief about it. I had to explain to the DMV lady that how much one state may owe another is going to between the AL department of revenue and the WI department of revenue. It is not for the DMV, Camp-Inn or our customers to deal with. If there is reciprocity money changing hands (and there could be) that is done at the department of revenue. I don't think she took that well.

Afterwards I got the email from the customer who was waiting for as he put it "the uber-supervisor" to make a decision on his case. He asked if I had any suggestions how to deal with it. I bet you can guess what I told him. Go to another DMV......

Cary

 

That's incredible, Cary. I'd like to know the outcome for the gentleman in AL.

I just got off the phone with VA Dept. of Taxation. Another nice lady (Kim) suggested I write a detailed letter to Craig Burns, Tax Com. of VA. "If it's in writing, they have to investigate and follow up." Those were her exact words. (I already knew that. Nothing like a paper trail!)
Will do.

Getting ready to call the governor's office next... I'm not stopping at the state level either.

Oh, the lady (Kim) said I am proceeding with this in the correct manner.

Just got off the phone with Dept. Sec. of Transportation (not sure why I was directed to that office)...it went a little bumpy at first, but the person was true to their word; they sent an email and promised to direct my letter to all the people who could affect change.

... and the beat goes on...

Deb