Battery - outside back up

Modifying to be able to use an outside, HD Battery on the older models that don't have the "Battery ON/OFF Switch". Outside Battery would be placed when needed (portable) just under the trailer out of the way with wire going to the Cigarette outlet. Have to "Switch OFF" the internal battery to work right.

Having run out of power several times, mainly do to the heater pad at night, I got a Honda generator, "Plan B" but don't like to use it so going to "Plan C". More Battery, Arrrgh-Arrgh-Aaarrrgh (Tool Man)

Not enough room in my build, #249, to upgrade so going to a outside battery, 28amps 100hrs big boy.

Expensive but believe it'll get the job done. My model doesn't have the Battery ON/OFF switch so installing one.

Game plan:
Install Battery ON/OFF switch (heheh considered the 'Frankensteen? Switch' but went with the dial.)
Will cut the hole in the panel, attach the cables and should be good to go.

I then should be able to put the "Big Boy" under the Trailer as needed, plug in directly to the Cigarette lighter and have power, guessing probably a week or so without using the internal one. 100hrs/8hrs = 12 nights.

When done, just unplug and put battery back into storage back of truck. Getting a trickle charger for either the Generator or Power hook-ups to recharge. I don't foresee being out in the wilds for more than 10 days at a time so hopefully there won't have to be 'Plan D'... sleeping bags I guess.. heheh

Will post photos when done...

I've seen other mods, adding batteries underneath etc, but I certainly don't have the talent nor tools to change things around. This should be Quick N Simple...


Switch:


Battery: (something like this but in a case)


Stay Tuned...

 

I've thought of this as a CPAP unit is in my future

we will see how well the solar panels do to keep up with the drain from the fridge

interested to see which battery you choose and why

Why not get a battery unit that is AC?

-Al

 

Frank, I will have Mick do a quick write up on what he did with ours for my new external power. I am NEVERever going to run out of power, if Mick can help it! He installed a switch and then created the pack. I am to shut things off, and plug into my 'lighter-outlet'. It can give you some ideas, and also things to look out for. He was an electrical engineer (and still is at heart).

 

AC?
NOt sure what that means or what they look like, heheheh... that's probably the best reason.
I just figured I'd get something that works for the Droppe and cars/truck and things since that is what I'll be using it for.

I have a Converter, so if I needed it, I guess I can do an AC. I have two other Blenders (heheh, big surprise there) that run off of AC and have run them off a battery with a converter or whatever they're called. My Pilot friend has one for starting the plane, worked great....

With this one, I can just attach cable to battery, put in case and have the external plug hanging out. When needed, just plug in the Cigarette adapter and good to go.

I chose the most powerful one and longest lasting they had. 100-hrs as noted above at 28??amp use. Figure the Droppe only uses about 8-amps or something like that so should be good for a week or more just on the battery.

Just finished getting everything now so measuring once and Cutting Twice... err? is that how it goes... Not sure, but that's probably how it'll end up...
Sigh...

Film at 11....

 

Ok, I am wrong. Mick put in a spot for me to plug into. He really should do the explaining on these things. I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, so it is still too new. Sorry!

 

thanks Sarah,

Just ran into the "Glitch" that always happens... after making the hole.

The Switch terminal is too Big for the trailer battery wire Loops..
Krap...heheh..



and I was trying to be so "kewl" by taking photos on a "How2..." heheh
sigh, the best laid plans....

 

Frank,

Sorry things aren't fitting!

Here is what our set up looks like, and the switch Mick used. I asked him to write something up. Everything was ordered from Amazon. I will post it as soon as he finishes writing it up. He is currently shoveling the last of the mulch that I couldn't do. 10.5 hours later and I am completely spent. We are trying to beat the rain.



I learned today, that he put it at the perfect hight for my pancake mix box to fit under. Bet that wasn't planned, but I am happy about it!

 

Great, I'll search Amazon, don't suppose you have a name on the switch... can't read it...
thanks Sarah, much appreciated....

Just found it... thanx again..

Blue Sea Systems 6006 m-Series (Mini) Battery Switch Single Circuit ON/OFF and cable, perfect...
Gawd...

 

Ok, so here is Mick's 'brief' write up! Goodness!

Backup Battery Setup
Usual disclaimer, this is how we did it, not saying it’s the right or best way, just what we did.



The basis of our setup is a switch that enables two separate power sources or connects two sources, more on why you might want to do that later. The switch is the Blue Sea Systems 9001e e-Series Battery Switch Selector, see below for the details. Basically it has three connectors on the back, the single output which is the trailer main power feed line. The other two are input sources, one for the main source which would be the battery already in the trailer, a second for the backup source input.

To setup the switch you first disconnect the wire that goes from the trailer +red battery to the main power distribution block. The wire you are looking for has an inline fuse on it. The trailer power line connects to the output of the selector switch.

You now need to create a new wire that goes from the trailers battery +Red terminal to the input #1 on the selector switch.

OK, so basically that’s it for the trailer power hookup, set the selector switch to #1 and you connect the main trailer battery through to the trailer.



The pic above shows where we mounted the switch. Next to it is the second part of our solution; it’s a Warn winch mount kit connector. I purchased the WARN 70920 Multi-Mount Wiring Kit as it comes with a short wire with connector which I used for the trailer side connector and a long wire with connector which I will show later as it makes up the external battery backup setup. What I like about these connectors is that you can buy them pre-wired and you can get a nice 4 AWG wire meaning no volt drop across the connection. Refer back to the wiring diagram for this part. The +Wire of the Warn connector is connected to the #2 input of the selector switch. NOTE, the BLUE wire is the +Positive. The –negative Warn connector wire, the yellow wire, is connected to the trailers black –negative block. You can connect it to the –negative black wire of the trailer battery. All the –negatives connect to each other.



These Warn connectors are designed for winches so are pretty robust.

At this point the trailer wiring is basically done, as you can see it’s actually very simple. Now with the selector switch in position #1 the main trailer battery is powering your trailer. In position #2 the external power source which you connect to the Warn connector powers your trailer.

OK, so lets quickly discuss why we installed a complete disconnect system like this. I originally wondered if I could just plug an external source into the 12v socket in the galley. The problem with this is that if you plug into the 12v socket without disconnecting the dead battery all you will end up doing is draining your backup battery as it balances the drained battery in the trailer. The dual switch as described above enables the aux backup battery to be connected and act as a totally new battery powering the trailer without being drained by the onboard battery.

Onto the description of the external source, we chose to go overboard. (Sarah says, "Big surprise here! Sheesh!")



We chose to purchase a battery box, the MinnKota Trolling Motor Power Center and put a big battery in it, Universal Power Group 45978 Sealed Lead Acid Battery. The reason for this battery box is that it has integrated fused connectors. It has 60 Amp terminal connections and 10 Amp 12v sockets. The big sealed lead acid deep cycle battery fits in it even though it’s not listed to. Trust me, it does. I did connect a couple of other things to the battery box so for a basic setup ignore the charger on the side and the inverter on the front. Oh, it’s super heavy, do not use the handle on the top of the box, use the side connectors.

The other side of the Warn connector wiring kit connects to the battery box. I think I cut off the connectors supplied on the Warn wires and crimped on 4 AWG lug rings, which I think I drilled out a little to fit the terminals on the selector switch and the battery box.



When you plug in the aux backup battery you set the selector switch to position #2 and the main battery is disconnected and the aux backup battery powers your trailer. As the trailer battery is disconnected it will not drain your aux backup battery.



The selector switch also has a 1+2 position. If you select this position you do connect the #1 input with the #2 input, which is connecting the trailer battery with the aux backup battery. In this mode you could use the trailers battery charger to charge both batteries, assuming you are plugged into shore power, 110v and you have the CampInn built in 5amp battery charger.

I wanted to use the little aux backup battery box for more than just trailer backup power. This is actually the third 12v battery power box that I have built and I think this is my best so far. The trolling motor battery box is great when combined with the big battery. I then added to that a battery charger, the Battery Tender 022-0157-1 Waterproof 12 Volt Power Tender Plus Battery Charger, which is the same charger the CampInn uses. I have many of these to charge my race car batteries. I hard wired it to the battery. On the side I connected the Xantrex Prowatt SW1000 1000W True Sinewave Inverter, so that you have not only 12v on the battery box, but you also have silent 110v. The true sinewave inverters are expensive but they power more sensitive equipment such as our espresso maker which I would die without (Sarah- "it seems our Bialleti isn't fast enough!"). I’m not going to go into what type of 110v equipment you can power with one of these inverters or for how long, there is many web pages that go into detail on how to calculate that. The battery that we chose to use in the aux setup is 100ah which is actually more amp hours than we have in the trailer, even with the extended battery setup that we did.

That’s about it, have fun. -Mick

The funny thing is that as I wrote this I realized that as usual I forgot the KISS rule. I had considered doing the simple setup, same as what Frank is doing. His setup disconnects the main battery so when you plug into the 12v socket you are just powering the trailer and not connecting batteries. At some point I decided I wanted to do a dual switch setup, I'm sure there was a reason at the time (Sarah-"it is because he is More-power Mick and everything is overkill!").

The basic parts list for this build

Blue Sea Systems 9001e e-Series Battery Switch Selector
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K2MCR2/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

WARN 70920 Multi-Mount Wiring Kit
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OV9NGC/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

MinnKota Trolling Motor Power Center
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PTHKMG/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Universal Power Group 45978 Sealed Lead Acid Battery
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0044Z8DJW/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Pico 4239C 4 AWG Battery Cable 3/8" Tubular Lug Ring / Eye Terminals 15 Per Package
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00030CY5G/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You will also need some wire, I recommend 4 AWG

Optional for the Aux Backup Battery Box
Xantrex Prowatt SW1000 1000W True Sinewave Inverter
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002I04A74/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Battery Tender 022-0157-1 Waterproof 12 Volt Power Tender Plus Battery Charger
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002DU3S9A/ref=oh_details_o00_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Kewl.... heheh, not sure where to start...

thanx, my only comment was the I was told to run the Negative wire to the switch. no idea why....

Oh, I just read it all, you have 2 switches... kewl...

Thanks...

 

Sarah,

Tell Mick that is a really nice setup. I like how he did that. Not surprised of course.

Frank,

I think Mick has you covered on this very well. I agree, not sur why they said to switch the negative side. Honestly, it shouldn't matter though. Working on a British motorcycle right now I am getting a bit used to the backwards positive ground stuff so I guess it can't get any weirder than that.

Cary

 

I think that sine wave inverter would allow you to use that to power a cpap machine

(and it gives you the AC power I alluded to, above)

nice set up

 

If it was only just that easy, unfortunately, inverters can be pretty inefficient. Depending on load you might only get 50% of the battery's DC power converted to AC. The lower the load the less efficient the inverter will be. If you are like Frank and running a blender, you might get 90% efficiency.

 

You won't get 90% efficient, a non ferroresonant inverter (even a pseudo sine wave inverter) will only get a max of about 75%. Some claim 78-79% to make theirs look better but in reality 75% is about all you will see. An inductive load like Frank's blender will be down in the 50% range for sure, inverters don't like loads of that sort. And no one here is going want to drag a giant ferroresonant inverter around with them camping! They are very big and heavy.

Cary

 

for the newbs like me, what does this mean? That you can't expect to power a cpap machine via this inverter?

That it's best to stick with DC?

I'm not sure what your comment means.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, I promise.

-Al

 

Krap...
Just got the 2 switch from Amazon.... Same sized stud/terminals...

Plan D for "Doh"!!!!
Looking for an auto parts store to see what they have as far as cables and end pieces.. or adaptors if they have it.
I just don't want to detach the ground connection way back inside. Looks a little to tight to mess around with...
Sigh... thought cutting the hole would be the hard part...

Finding/Getting parts to fit is the hard part...
Sigh, again... I just wanna go camping eh?? heheh..

This is becoming a PITA...

 

Frank, believe Mick drilled out the connectors a bit so they fit. Is that possible?

 

Hmmm... will take a look-see....

Never thought of doing that, thought of cutting them and spreading apart... will check it.
Thanks Sarah, again... heheh between the two of us, I'll "Git'er done"

 

AlCat,

I think Cary can address this better than I can. I went through this with him when we ordered our 560 and at one point I understood this. In any event, the following is my super simple take on the inverter. An inverter works fine if you have enough battery capacity; however, if you are trying to squeeze out every possible hour from your CPAP, it puts you at a significant disadvantage. Keep in mind that because you do not want to drain your battery past half its capacity you are essentially starting with half a battery. Now based on Cary’s best case scenario that the best you can get is 75% efficiency and my pessimistic scenario that you will only get 50% efficiency, you are close to halving the batteries capacity in half yet again. Keep in mind that efficiency is based on a few factors; a sine wave inverter works better than a non-sine wave inverter. Also, the size of your inverter makes a difference; you don’t want one too large, you want one matched to what the CPAP will draw so it is unlikely you are going get near 75% efficiency. Another issue with using an external battery is the sheer size of the battery. Carrying an AGM battery much over 50 amp hours is not for everyone. If you start with a 50 ah battery your expected yield with an inverter will be between 12 and 18 ah. I figure my CPAP draws about 1 amp per hour when in use. The humidifier also draws about 1 amp per hour, maybe more. Ironically, it looks like by refrigerator also draws about 1 amp per hour, depending on ambient temperatures. So if you use an inverter and are not powering a refrigerator and are not using the humidifier, you would get between a night and half to two nights of CPAP service. Without the inverter you would likely get 24 ah which should yield three nights.

I hope this helps

 

Can you just use your tow vehicle as a cheap generator. Can't you use your battery on the tow vehicle with the tow vehicle on and the right type of inverter?
Something like that?